Update.

4/8/2016

Because of work and family commitments it is becoming more difficult to reply to all emails. Most of the questions asked can only be answered by Kingsley or by those who know his past and by Dianne herself.. As reluctant as I was to set up this blog , it is the easiest and fastest way to tackle this. Post your questions on here and hopefully someone who reads the site will be able to give you an answer. Dianne has agreed to answer any questions put directly to her. Please use it also to give any information . Any abusive comments will be reported immediately , copied, filed and then removed. To date 43 requests for copies of that letter have been received and sent, 17 replies with questions, comments, observations and advice received back.
Should any new information be sent by email and it can be backed up and proved, then it will be posted on the site.
Thanks for your support.

10/4/16
Do not allow yourself to be manipulated again. You know that anything that comes out of his mouth is either a straight out lie or a distorted version of the truth. So on no account or for any reason ever feel sorry for him, he does not nor ever will feel sorry for himself , as far as he is concerned, he is always right and will play the “poor me” card when its to his advantage to do so without the slightest feeling of guilt or wrong doing. The only forgiveness he wants is to be forgiven for getting caught out. So they will throw the blame on someone else to divert it from them.
Is a narcissist ever truly sorry?
When an apology is sincere, the person apologising experiences regret, guilt or empathy, finds out what they can do to put things right and tries not to repeat the same mistakes again. One of the most important factors in this process is admitting guilt. Can you expect this from a narcissist? The answer to that is, 'No.' They lie all the time and faking an apology is no different.

875 Comments

Jesse

12/2/2017 11:12:53 pm

With the wife packing for our return home and i am just getting in the way apparently, i decided to go through the files of correspondence i have regarding the site. I came across several emails from 2014 that originally were published on the site but was part of what was deleted when it was hacked. I can't post the full emails but will post what i feel were relative issues at the time. So to all those who never got the chance to read the original site i hope this is interesting. I will try to post a few more over the coming weeks depending on the time i get as it's always hectic going home for the holidays and trying to fit in everything in a few weeks.

“”””” I have been told that she is very similar to his first wife, in looks, appearance ,build, character and attitude. The one he deserted and left in a financial mess in the Uk when he went to Australia.
We are not sure just what exactly their relationship is like now but it gave the impression then of not being quite right, as if they were both trying to hard to prove it and it not quite coming off. It actually made you feel uncomfortable being around them. She was always complaining about being victimised and lied about and appeared to be the instigator in this, he said very little, occasionally he would mention how badly he was treated by Dianne or the stress he was subjected to trying to raise and control her grandsons, which we found out later was untrue. Dianne came across as a very intelligent, caring, friendly person, the exact opposite to her and we were all surprised and stunned when he left her the way he did as in the beginning he often talked about her with a great deal of love and respect for her, admitting that it was her support and love that got him where he is . . It really confused us all, the sudden change in his feelings for her and really made no sense. Then to find out how badly he treated her shocked us all because we were a little jealous of what a wonderful and loving relationship they had and he was proud to tell everyone. Then to find out all the other information about him and her, the lies and manipulation they both used , that really threw us all. It shows that people are not always who they appear to be. Thankfully that is something we don't have to deal with anymore as we have severed all contact with them.
I'm sorry i can't give any recent updates but under the circumstances we really try to avoid even discussing either of them, the dramas they caused us was minor in comparison to what they did to Dianne but painful enough for us not to have any contact with them. “””””

Jesse

12/3/2017 01:12:19 pm

Another interesting email from 2014/15. Fills in a few gaps.

“””””” I can add a bit more to xxxxx email above. Liz was always complaining about how badly she was being treated by xxxxs father, to the point that we all felt sorry for her. Kings on the other hand would tell how wonderful his wife and family were and xxxxx is right when she said we were a little jealous but happy to see someone so in love with their wife. I think at that time Liz could see the writing on the wall with xxxxs father and that it may not go her way with him leaving his wife and family for her. So she targeted Kings and constantly used him as a shoulder to cry on as she wanted what he had with his wife. We all saw it happening and hoped he had enough sense to see it as well. Some of us actually warned him to be careful and not get to involved. Mind you, this was before we found out the truth about them.
There were subtle signs that they were involved in a relationship, Liz's smug attitude around him was very telling. We worked out later that she was having a relationship with him and at the same time with xxxxs father, so that if one didn't work out she had a backup. It became really blatant after their business trip to Mackay so we all knew it was a reality. That's when Kings began changing his description of his life with his wife and family, suddenly his wife was not the person she had been previously and the boys were to difficult to manage. We felt so sorry for Dianne and even talked about telling her as she obviously didn't have a clue. But decided to keep out of it and hoped it would run its course and she need never know. A mistake on our part , we realise we should have said something. Liz was definitely the instigator in all this but he was just as equally to blame because as we later found out the truth it became obvious that they were both playing each other. When Liz came back from Canada we knew that relationship was over with xxxs father and it became clear that King's was her next choice. What they did to Dianne and her family made us sick and we began to realise that all of the problems we had in the company could be put down to Liz in the beginning and then Kings as well. They were very good at hiding their true selves and their lies were so convincing. Liz got away with a lot because of her relative who also worked for the company and covered up for her blame shifting by backing her up and who covered up for them both with his wife. Then things really got bad with the dramas over his engine that the company got involved with and supported, so much so that we were wondering if the company would survive or if we should start looking for new jobs. They both left before they could be officially terminated as they knew it was coming. “””””””

Alex J

12/3/2017 11:30:58 pm

Looks like a few more worms have crawled out of that open can. Disappointed i never got to read the original site. Can understand now why it was hacked and deleted, not exactly the sort of info you want to get out. Obviously by those who were there at the time and saw it happening, too much intimate info to be by anyone just hearing it second hand. So now my friend you have us all hooked and waiting for more.

Matt

12/3/2017 11:32:45 pm

Holy shit, what a story, sorry i missed reading it first time round. Puts a totally different slant on this mess. What a pair of manipulating , callous thugs. Hope all those who have been defending them and swallowing the lies realises just what they are now and what they have done.

Ann

12/3/2017 11:36:02 pm

Anyone still think he or her should go say sorry to his ex wife and those kids?.after reading that. There is absolutely nothing either could say to forgive them. She sure made her plans well, screwing around with 2 married men at the same time and not caring which one she ended up with or that she was destroying another woman and children , including her own, just to get what she wanted.Was he really such a bargain??, i doubt it. . So much for falling in love hey. He's not much better, all those lies and no wonder his wife lost the plot. Having to deal with both of them would have been would have been horrific. One loading the gun and the other pulling the trigger.

Carol

12/3/2017 11:46:31 pm

I hope everyone where they work and who know them now reads this, the truth always finds a way out and he knows that. Its one of his favourite sayings, he should have taken notice of it. Paints a really ugly picture of just how deceptive they are and the lengths they go to to get what they want. Reading that email about her on the other page , putting it together with this and you get the whole ugly story. I know the trauma they caused and the fallout from it and this explains how and why.

Details kept private by request.

12/3/2017 11:51:29 pm

Always knew there had to be more to this and understand why it was deleted from the original site. So thanks, you filled in a few blanks, exposed some of the lies and it changes a lot of things now. You can post this but leave my name off it please. I dont want myself or my family as their next target now i know for sure just how vindictive they are. So thanks for this site, it has forced us to see and accept the truth.

Nik

12/3/2017 11:52:34 pm

We always suspected it was something like that and not the story we were told.
Any further details would be appreciated.

Dianne Frost

12/4/2017 01:51:30 am

If I'm being honest, I made this site because I'm sad. All my life I've never really had anything I could call mine. When I met Kingsley I realised his soul was so soft and impressionable. I never really loved him but I just wanted something to own. I treated him like a pet but my I craved more and more control, which led to abuse. I don't want to admit it, but its true. When Kingsley escaped from my horrible ways I realised I don't have control, so I built this site. All I need is control of something. I'm sick, I need help. Please someone get me help I'm going crazy

Jesse

12/4/2017 02:50:48 am

I rejected and deleted the worst comments, quite a few, all i might add from the same person but decided to leave this one up to show just what Dianne has been subjected to for months and is the reason she has changed her email address and phone numbers. The others were simply to crude and disgusting to post. Obviously he has someone who thinks he is wonderful and has pulled the poor me i am being victimised act on them. Watch yourself honey, your being used. I have kept the other comments complete with the isp address they were sent from and which i have a location for, if it happens again i will take the matter further. You are the one who is sick and dangerous.
If you cant handle the truth about him then you need help and my advice would be not to read the site.. Everything on this site can be backed up with proof. Your isp address 101.183.163.117 and i know your location but i wont print it. Except to say its in Queensland and its a nice place. I sent copies to Dianne and after she stopped laughing her comment was, " silly, pathetic bitch, is that the best she has", tell her to inform my loving ex husband and his thing, good try but im not fazed by it, and its time he grew up.

Chloe Fucking Mazza

12/4/2017 03:25:09 am

You know whats sick? You believing that what you're doing is right. How about grow up? move on? You're all sick in the head to think this is okay. I hope you get what you deserve. You need help, seriously, I'm worried, it's not normal behaviour. This is something I expect from 13 year olds, quiet pathetic and honestly I feel really, really sad for you and hope you get the help you need. Move on, but mostly, keep my name out your fucking trailer trash mouth. Good night. x

Jesse

12/4/2017 03:43:09 am

So now we know who our stalker is, a child , a very foul mouthed child. This time she used her name and her own email address.
Liz Mazzas youngest daughter, im not surprised. Kingsley is very good at manipulating children. Well done, mate. Perhaps they should tell her the truth and that what she has been doing is a crime as is abusive, threatening text messages and phone calls , because she is a child and does not know the whole story or the truth this time i will not report it and press charges but should it happen again, that is a different matter. Good night to you Chloe and i am so sorry you got caught up in this. But he is what he is and they both did what they did. nothing changes that.

Jesse

12/4/2017 04:07:50 am

I will not debate this with a child. You know exactly what you have said and i have documented it. Just let it go and get on with your life. You should not be involved in this. Any further posts have been marked as spam and will be auto deleted before even being posted. Dianne is a good person who was badly used by him for his own gain and her grandsons were permanently damaged by him. That my dear is the truth. I wont bad mouth your mum to you regardless of what you say to provoke me. The truth is up to her to tell. Get on with your life child. and dont read this site.

Jesse

12/4/2017 04:17:32 am

There have been several other posts from this young lady, my last reply to them is above. All now deleted when i set up the block. Her email address and isp have been blocked as i will not debate this with her. She is only a child who is defending them. A child who does not know all the facts . But i will leave these two from her up as proof that i or Dianne are not making this up. So please just let it go. Thanks Jesse.

Marian

12/4/2017 12:53:51 pm

That was a bit of a shock, but you handled it well once you realised it was a child or by the sound of it a teenager, by shutting down the conversation and blocking her.. I think you will find that something that has been posted recently has made her question issues that she has been told were lies , from the transcripts you sent she jumped straight in to defend him and condemn and accuse Di in some very colourful and crude language of instances that happened but his version of course, one thing i did notice, she never defended or even mentioned her mother, that simple fact reveals more than words could. He has become a very important person to her, a father figure who she thinks cares about her as if she was his own child. So whatever it was she read or heard has shaken her belief in that, so like all children, she goes on the attack in the only way she knows how to try and prove it wrong. Its so easy to manipulate children to your way of thinking..
I recently read the following.
“” Let me get this straight….
You're going to keep on lying after getting caught out in your lies by denying the lies with more lies.????
And then get upset, cry being victimised and wonder why people aren't gonna believe you anymore??.
You gotta be joking?,,
Arguing with a Narc is like playing chess with a pigeon,
No matter how good you are that bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
So don't waste your time arguing with them or waiting for them to change.”””

Jesse

12/4/2017 01:00:35 pm

Spent over an hour talking to Dianne after the recent incident. She was as shocked and distressed as i was that another child has been manipulated and obviously emotionally damaged by them and to a lesser degree by both of us. Why do individuals like them do this? Manipulate children to get what they want. Knowing full well that something like this would happen when all that all they should do is tell the truth or at the very least not say anything, On our part it was not intentional but it happened anyway and as a result of it in the next few weeks will be discussing the possibility of taking down the site.. If innocent children are being used and hurt its something Dianne wont condone or take part in and i agree with her. So once again they have caused severe emotional distress to Dianne , i don't think anyone can grasp just how this has affected her unless you know her personally, it has brought back all the guilt she felt when she realised just how badly his actions and manipulating had impacted on the boys and still is. The tone and some of the things she said clearly showed that she believes Dianne was the abuser and Kings did nothing wrong. Sorry but i can't elaborate on it as her posts had accusations against Dianne i wont print in some very crude and spiteful language and Dianne agrees the only way she could have known about certain things is to be told by Kingsley or perhaps Liz and were twisted to make them believable in his favour. I will make the point that she never in any of her messages defended her mother or even mentioned her, which in itself is revealing , they were all in defense of him. I will put up one final post then there will not be any more until we decide what to do about the future of the site. Thanks to all those who have sent messages and posts in the last couple of hours of support and outrage that this happened , they won't be posted but you know they are appreciated. So please, for the foreseeable future, don't send any more posts, if you have something to say email me.

Jesse

12/4/2017 05:41:47 pm

After little sleep, many hours of talks on Skype last night, obtaining legal advice this morning and at Dees instance and taking into consideration the messages from many people not to take down the site, we have come to a decision. Because of the interaction between myself and that young person which clearly shows she reads the site and it has caused her distress, Dianne has made it very clear that nothing else be posted on the site. She will not be a part of the lies they have both told that has confused and upset the child. There is nothing she can do about the damage they have caused with their manipulation but she can put a stop to any further confusion and hurt caused on her part. So, after seeking legal advice it has been decided that the site will remain in place, at least the cover page and the New Page but the Questions and Comments page be taken down. The site will be left to stand as is but no further information or posts/ comments will be taken and published.
This way the site will be there for anyone to read in the future and they can make up their own minds about the validity of its contents. Any queries/ comments or information can be sent by email only and will only be made public at my discression and only posted on the New Page Section. IF and this is crucial, “IF” the sender agrees to have their full name and email address published and if the information they provide can be verified , proven and backed up. Anyone who has something to say must be prepared to identify themselves so that there are no misconceptions and show it is the truth on their part. That way anyone who reads the site, who knows either of them, will have the chance to ask them about it and ask why this person has said what they have, then it's up to them to give an explanation and be truthful or lie, it’s their choice and takes any responsibility off us. This will include all family members , friends ,co-workers ,past, present and future . If you feel what they have done or are doing is wrong or damaging to someone the you need to have the courage of your convictions to say so openly and take any reprisals that may occur. If you don't have belief in or the courage to stand up for what is right and what you say then simply don't say anything. That way there will not be any reason for a similar situation to occur as has done recently and anyone who disagrees with your concerns or requires further information or an explanation can take it up with you. All emails are to be addressed to me and not Dianne as she has made it perfectly clear that she wants nothing further to do with them, but that others should be aware of them in the future, hence the reason the site will remain with just the basics , should I feel it’s something she needs to know I will inform her. Dianne has insisted that no further comments be accepted or posted and this page, Comments and Questions be shut down as soon as possible , doing this is the only way she will agree to leaving the rest of site up. My email address is :: franklin_jess@outlook.com

Jesse

12/4/2017 08:01:05 pm

Some of you may have noticed that the amount of posts have decreased from 790 to 270. I am no webmaster so it's a laborious task deleting them as i have to take care not to make a mistake and accidently delete the entire site. Once it is cleared it will be left as an open page and posts will no longer come through me to be vetted before approving posting them, i will be notified immediately by email when a post is submitted directly onto the page and will go into the site and delete it when i can. I will continue to answer emails and periodically check the site but basically it is finalised and no new material will be posted. This is the way Dianne wants it so that's the way it will be. It will also free up my time and take some of the pressure off me that it has caused, i felt it was worth the inconvenience and never complained, but i agree with Dee, enough is enough, especially after yesterday's drama that caused a lot of pain to those on both sides who did not deserve it. The site will continue to whizz around cyber space and anyone who looks for information on either of them will eventually stumble over it. The two emails posted that caused so much drama will be moved to the new page, why? Because something in them obviously did not match up with the stories and lies they have told and set off this chain of events, others after reading them might make the connection as well, as we don't know for certain their version of the story we can't say what the discrepancies, “ LIES” are. So, Kings and Liz have won this round but at what cost?. The site will continue to be available and will pop up when least expected and be read by someone looking for information on them for whatever reason.Sometime in the future they will be held accountable and the way Karma works it will happen when they are least expecting it.. .

Jesse Franklin

12/7/2017 08:38:44 pm

Dianne has insisted i post this, it's to Kings and this way she knows he will have to read it.
She doesn't care who reads it or what they think because she knows it's THE TRUTH. It will be the final post on here.
Kingsley,
Whatever reason you had for doing this, whatever rationalizations you have used to help yourself be okay with with all of this, whatever lies you have told yourself and those around you including your latest source of supply and her family, you and i both know it won't sustain you forever. You will eventually have to look at yourself in the mirror and and come to terms with the fact that you hurt someone who really cared about you FOR NO OTHER REASON AT ALL other than love, not your money, which you didn't have, not for status, you had none, not for position or power, you had neither, but simply for love. I have said this before, there is one thing i will never have to come to terms with, that is my integrity which you have shown that you don't have. Through this whole fucking ordeal , i have stood by what i believe in. My biggest mistake was trusting you.. I loved you , cared about you , had faith in you and believed you, i tried to help you in every way i possibly could, i gave you everything i had and more without any selfish motive or expecting anything in return except your love , the truth and your fidelity. The only guilt i carry is what i permitted you to do to two young boys because you convinced me that they need specialised care that we were not qualified to give them when all the needed and asked for was to be loved , cared for and accepted, your selfish actions and lies has impacted on them in ways that have destroyed their lives and i will forever hold myself partly responsible for that , i was the one who introduced you into their lives by believing your lies. Your excuse that you said over and over was , “ that you wanted us to spend more time alone without all the time and emotional work caring for them took and that they could come home on weekends and school holidays”.But that never happened, once they were gone, that was it. I read from that young girl that you have a soft and gentle soul, when in truth, you have no soul. That i treated you like a pet and abused you, i can only imagine the lies you have filled her head and heart with, you did the same to me and to the boys. She never defended her mother in any way, because i feel she knows and has lived through all her lies and manipulations her entire life. Perhaps she feels that she is treating you the same way she stated i did, but for whatever reason , she loves and trusts you, not her mother. You will eventually destroy her and you know it but you dont care as long as you get what you want and if her mother cant or wont see this then she is just as much to blame.. A professional therapist told me that reading what she said has overtones of an unhealthy emotional relationship and is open to speculation on several levels. I hope someone close to her other than her mother recognizes this and does something about it.
Every painful step i take from now until this is over will be to hopefully find some way to move on from this without bearing any more guilt than i already do. No one in my life has ever hurt me as much as you have or caused as much damage to those i loved and cared about as you have. NO ONE…. What kills me is that you had absolutely no reason to hurt me or them. None what so ever, regardless of the lies you have told as your reason for doing what you did. I was your biggest fan…. I believed in you ….i trusted you….. I loved you…. As did the boys.
You put me through the most agonizing pain i could have ever imagined and i still have no idea WHY?. I have no idea at all why you needed to do this to me and to them.. I will never understand this.. Yes, i have been told you have all the classic signs of having a NPD, i accept that, but cant accept your reasons or lies for doing the things you do, because your reasons make no sense and are straight out lies and manipulation.
Dianne

Jesse

12/9/2017 01:58:35 pm

I have received several comments were the sender has requested their details, i.e. name , email etc not be published. Which i did not leave up but deleted immediately. Please be aware that any comments sent to this page from now on will not be vetted and will automatically be posted WITH the senders details as they no longer come to me first but go directly to here. . I have stated that previously. So if you do post anything on here it will show your details. Also as stated previously, i will post any emails received that give permission to be posted with the name and email address of the sender only and only on the NEW PAGE section and i will no longer be monitoring the site on a regular basis but only accessing it to post any emails i feel are worth posting or if i am notified there is a problem with it.
So please…. BE AWARE that if you do post anything on this section now it will SHOW your details. This section can be used to ask a question of another reader and to talk among yourselves BUT it will SHOW your details. .

Jason Thompson

12/23/2017 11:39:25 am

My sister knows this family, was she thought a friend to one of them, she asked me to read the site and explain a few things. She was shocked by it all but said it explained a few things that had her a bit confused. My advice was she should back off and not get involved with any of them, that they were trouble waiting to happen. She agreed. Her last name is different to mine so no comeback on her by writing this. I don't know any of them. Hell,, don't want to either. Thanks for the information it just might have stopped her getting hurt..

Alex Jackson

12/23/2017 11:43:43 am

Hi Jess. Thanks for the emails on the new page, looking forward to more in the new year. Everyone is spot on with what they say. Lots have been talking about what the girl said and have come up with a few ideas as to what it all means. That situation needs a bit of closer scrutiny. It and other things said have driven home to quite a few non believers just how manipulating they are and have caused them to take a few steps back and look at it all with a different perspective. That last article you posted was a real eye opener. Catch up with you in the new year, spoke to Di yesterday, she is going great. I sent her the following with a Christmas Card. Something everyone should read and remember.
Never regret being a good person, to the wrong people.
Your behaviour says everything about you.
And their behaviour says everything about them.

Helen Turner

12/25/2017 11:49:54 am

I haven't read the site for awhile, just check it every now and then, a friend of mine who knows them pointed it out the other day at a Christmas lunch and it quickly became the topic of conversation. Everything on here has exposed lies and put a different slant on all the stories we get told, so much of the truth is left out, turned around or manipulated by them. You can't dismiss it, even the most staunch believer has to have doubts, as it shows that some people are not who and what they pretend to be. What that child wrote has shaken up a few of their faithful followers and done more to expose the truth as to who and what they both are more than anything else on the entire site. Teenagers, especially girls, tend to lead with their feelings. . No defence of mum, which would be the normal reaction, so you have to assume she didn't defend her because she knows the truth about her, it's all about him. If you actually read what she wrote about him when pretending to be his ex wife and read between the lines it leaves you wondering as to just what she has been told as she obviously believes this “ soft and impressionable soul” needs protecting . Then that vicious attack when found out. Pity the worst of it was deleted but i can understand why . As one male colleague said, “ looks like mummy has a rival for his affection”. Quite a few people including myself will be watching to see how this plays out.

Marian Lightfoote

12/26/2017 11:21:47 pm

Quite a few people are looking at all this in a different way, Helen. I was a little surprised by what she said, not what you would expect from a young girl defending a man who is in essence the father figure in her life, her description of him was very personal and i am sure others would have been just as shocked, writing as his ex wife who she knows nothing about other than what she has been told but who apparently knew all about his loving nature and gentle wounded soul. It gives the impression that she has seen how he has been abused and used by someone who doesn't love him and treats him like her personal pet. Very strange and open to speculation. But i was even more surprised by what she didn't say. No mention of her mother at all, not one word in her defence, which is also very strange.In a normal situation your mother is the first one you defend not some stranger who was suddenly dropped into your life. I am sure others have made the connection as well. I feel your friend could be right in what he said, It's not that unusual for a young girl/ woman who has had an emotional upheaval in her life when young ,to compete with her mother for the attention of a man. Especially if he lives in the same house and has contact every day , pretends he cares about her as he has done with other children and in this case other males around like her own father. It can become a very damaging issue for all the family. After speaking to Dianne even she sees the connection between this and how her grandsons fell under his charm with his false promises and lies and the damage that caused. She knows him better than he thinks and knows how he operates.
Hopefully there is one decent male in the family or her own father, if he cares that is, who will stand up for her and have a closer look at this. Only time will tell and i sincerely hope it all works out as to many children have already been hurt. Im sure there are those who will keep Jesse updated. All the best for a merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous New Year my dear.

Max Rosenburg

12/25/2017 03:02:09 pm

What youngsters forget is that as soon as you put something on the internet it becomes PUBLIC PROPERTY. Millions of strangers have access to it and can use it anyway they want. So be careful what photos you post or what you say as it is there forever. You cant take it back…. The following is worth remembering and a good way to start .
There are a lot of dishonest, lying, manipulating people in the world, throughout your life you will meet them. Unfortunately some of the worst ones will be those people who should have you best interests at heart, you believe them, trust them, respect them, love them and you will be confused and suffer for your trust in them. ..
SO!!!!! Don't be impressed by someone's job title, position, money, or self promoting of all the great things they have done or are going to do. Be impressed by the way they treat other living beings. Honesty, integrity, compassion and being humble shows a person's true worth and character ,more than pretence, lies, manipulation and bragging do.
Read between the lines, Look behind the actions, weigh up the evidence, listen to the words and question them, forget the tears, the denials, the stronger the protest , the harder the attempt to get sympathy, the more likely its a lie. Trust in your gut feelings, they are there for this reason, “ your survival”. . Never allow anyone to to use coercion, manipulation, guilt trips ,promises of gain or love to push you into doing something or saying something you know is not right. If a person cant have a discussion without throwing their hands in the air and walking away saying things like, “ have it your way”, “ do what you want”, “ i won't argue” or lay a guilt trip on you for not agreeing with them, then they know they are wrong and your getting too close to the truth, if you know you're right then you stand up for it, ….. A lie is a lie regardless of the excuse given for it and a lie always causes pain to someone.. Earn what you want, don't take the easy route, be strong in your convictions, be true to yourself, give respect and love to those who earned it, respect yourself and remember, sometimes the truth is the hardest pill to swallow. , the truth might hurt but a lie can kill, emotionally, financially or a career, in the worst case a lie can and has caused death.
I can see some of you reading this and thinking, “ more mumbo jumbo feel good crap from some old fart, you have to be ruthless to get anywhere in life” and your right in a way. If you play fair , be honest and consider others it probably won't make you rich and famous but it will give you the certainty that those around you are genuine people who actually care about and respect you and you will succeed. There is a difference between working for what you want and the self respect and satisfaction you get knowing you earned it rather than taking it from someone else by deception. You can't have it both ways. But you can find a middle ground. What you forget is that the person you trample on, lie to, lie about, manipulate and then throw on the rubbish heap to get you what you want are not the only one you destroy, the ripples spread out and hurt and destroy those around them and will eventually come back to you. So give it a try, the results might surprise you.
So to all , young and mature, that have found that middle road home, it can only get better for you next year, have a happy christmas and to those still looking for it, the long road home is usually the right one, start with an apology and the truth and work from there.

Alex Jackson

12/26/2017 06:25:18 pm

Max, not bad for an old fart , you just gave the best common sense advice anyone will ever get. To bad certain people didn't get the same advice when they were “ youngsters”. Would have saved a lot of people a lot of pain if they had. Lets hope that those reading it take it to heart. Seasons greetings to you and yours.

Karen Matthews

12/27/2017 04:06:22 pm

Children jump to the defence of the parent they respect, love and care about, in a normal loving family with both parents they rarely pick one over the other. But in a dysfunctional family they see and hear everything, i feel that in this family with a mom jumping from man to man, job to job, always using excuses that it's never her fault and if this is the child who found out that her dad was not her dad when her mom tried to scam him for child support then this is a child who was confused ,felt unloved , unwanted , not sure who or what she was and knew the truth about her mom so when this man came along and showed her kindness and caring she transferred everything she had lost to him. So no great surprise that she ignored her mom, he is her hero.
NARCISSISTS AND EMOTIONAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION.
Emotional or psychological manipulation can be truly devastating. Loosely defined, the manipulator plays on your good intentions, insecurities, vulnerabilities and weaknesses in order to get what they want. This could be someone you trust or even love, and they are often void of any conscientious considerations, will prey on these weaknesses in order to compel you to do something in their favor. While all human beings are manipulative to some degree, the Narcissist is habitually manipulative and will employ this form of psychological control consistently.
THEY WILL USE YOUR WORDS AGAINST YOU.
THE’RE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING
THEY COMPLETELY LACK ACCOUNTABILITY
THEY ARE GUILT - MONGERS
THEY ARE COWARDS
THEY LIE CONSTANTLY
THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO BE HAVING IT WORSE OR HAD IT WORSE THAN ANYONE ELSE
THEY ARE THE PERPETUAL VICTIM
THEY TELL THEIR TALES OF WOE, OF ALWAYS BEING USED ,ABUSED AND TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF
THEY SEEK SYMPATHY
I think it's safe to assume that this is what the child grew up with and saw and heard. Then along comes Mr. Wonderful, the perfect parent who cares, But doesn't realise that this person is using the same tactics and capitalizing on the child's pain and confusion for their own gain. Especially if they tell the story of going through similar things in their life , the child bonds with them and after seeing how her mom treated other men in her life, she wants to protect him from that. From what he has told her and probably what she has overheard others saying and children hear more than we realise, , she incorrectly assumes his ex wife has treated him the same way.
Children are the favourite target of an Emotionally Manipulating Narcissist as they are trusting and expect the adults in their lives to be honest and caring and finally they think they have found a parent figure who is.. It's a very predictable situation.

Jeff Feeney

12/28/2017 04:39:49 pm

From what i have read on here , that is backed up with documents and exposures from others who know them, they both have done more damage throughout their lives in their quest to obtain what they feel the world owes them than anyone has the right to cause . The emotional damage they have caused to so many is never going to be repaired in some cases.
Using , abusing and manipulating an adult is bad enough, most adults are mature enough to see the truth and the true face behind the mask and distance themselves from people like them but to use and manipulate vulnerable children to get what you want , is the most despicable act anyone can do, especially if they are your own children. All over the world people like them are now being exposed and the truth told. Those that have been emotionally or financially used ,abused , manipulated or had their careers destroyed , have stopped being afraid or embarrassed and are speaking out. All you have to do is read the hundreds of stories on so many sites on the net about Narcissists from every corner of the world to see just how similar they are with the destruction they cause to spouses, family members, friends, co-workers, companies and children is unbelievable and the media attention to high profile Narcissistic individuals is increasing daily.
Does a Narcissist ever feel guilt or remorse for what they do?. Simply put, No. The only feelings they have is to feel sorry for themselves when exposed and always and i do mean always, go into self preservation mode by declaring their innocence , that they are being victimised and do everything they can to undermine the credibility of their accuser. They will lie, accuse and manipulate the facts to show themselves to be the poor innocent victim. .

At that final moment of your life there are things we all ask ourselves.

Did i live a good life?
Did i ever truly love?.
Did i ever accept and cherish the love given to me?.
Did i make a positive difference to someone's life?.
Did my life matter?
When i am gone will i be remembered with love and loss?.

The answer for a Narcissist?. NO!!!

Angie Mitchell

12/30/2017 02:15:16 pm

2017, the year Hidden Abuse Surfaced in its most visible form. They aren't just immature, they are secretly sadistic, and scheming in the most cunning ways to get what they want and do the maximum damage. Don't be fooled by the "dumb,innocent , victim “facade.

Almost all survivors of emotional abuse go through a stage in recovery of wondering if the abuser is so dumb and doesn't know the pain they cause or is the abuser aware and know exactly what they are doing. Being able to answer the are they dumb or aware question is critical to a survivors recovery. Narcissists, Psychological and sociopath abusers know when and where to turn off their manipulative game. They know precisely how and when to push all the emotional buttons to get the victim to respond exactly how they want them to and get whatever it is they want, desire, crave from that person. They know how to triangulate people and make themselves appear to be the victim.., You tell me , is that someone too “ dumb” to know what they do?. They know, and that is a fact…and never forget, “ if they did it once, they will do it again” as has been shown by everything on this site, so stop kidding yourself that they would never use you in this way, if the feel the need to use you to get what they want then they will do so without a second thought. . So stop feeling sorry for them, they are not being victimised, never been used or abused, never been abandoned, never been financially ruined except by themselves, everything they say and do to get your support and sympathy is exactly what they have done to others. The power to do what they do is in the fact that they are expert and convincing liars, you stand up to them by not believing them and you take that power off them, leaving them exposed for who and what they are..

Nick Jones

12/31/2017 12:05:35 am

Narcissists constantly lie???
They sure do...and these are some of the reasons…..

To get narcissistic supply. Which is whatever they want that you have and can supply.
To avoid accountability. They will shift blame from themselves to someone else, they are never wrong.
To appear grandiose. Humble, generous, caring.
For power and recognition, they are better than you at everything..
To manipulate and control others.
To maintain the false facade of themselves.
To gaslight their victims.
They see no reason to be truthful unless it benefits them.
To make their victims feel crazy.
It gives them pleasure and a sense of superiority to fool and trick people.
To get sympathy and support.
To knock down anyone who stands in their way , i.e. job promotions.

When called out on a lie they will pull out every trick they have to make you feel guilty for even suggesting they are lying. The sympathy ploy will start, the i am being victimized, they will cry foul , anything and everything becomes fair game to use and you become the enemy if you don't back down and apologize, because you have caused them to lose the leverage and power the lies give them. I have felt the full wrath of a narcissist i called out and proved they were lying. But to many people knew the truth and the more he assassinated my character the deeper he dug his own hole.

Marian Lightfoote

12/31/2017 10:59:26 am

A good way to start off a new year with some hard facts and home truths.
When the Narcissist Is Nice: False Versus Genuine?
"Nice" is a tool that can be used to distract from what a narcissist is doing or about to do. It gives you a false sense of security, while they are already engaging in their nefarious behavior, or scheming to do so.
"So where does “nice” fit into the picture of the narcissist?
Those close to the narcissist are well-versed in his/her wide range of controlling tactics. Narcissists are notorious for idealizing a love interest, “golden child,” friend, or business associate charming and drawing them in with excessive displays of admiration and attentiveness, prematurely shared intimacies, and grand promises. The idealization phase typically turns to devaluation once the narcissist’s seduction succeeds or if he/she finds a better source of “narcissistic supply.”
Narcissists are unfaithful because they feel entitled to have as many partners as they want to give them the Narcissistic supply they crave. Acceptance, position, power, money, idolised, they feel no sense of long term commitment and only stay until the supply runs out or they find someone with more to give. They do not see this as being wrong at all , to them it's a step up the ladder of self gratification, of proving to themselves just how good and special they are.
Many narcissists actually hate the opposite sex, they use infidelity to punish them for the wrongs that the narcissist blames them for, which includes any rejection or hurt they they suffered from any member of the opposite sex at any time in their past . The narcissist gets married to appear normal to the world, to convince the latest supply that the feelings they show are genuine, to tie this person to them, it also makes the narcissist despise their spouse, the narcissist sees them as a hindrance, because they have to eventually go through the drama of divorce when they want to move on. In fact the narcissist really hates his or her spouse , because they demand the narcissist be faithful . Fidelity serves no purpose as far as the narcissist is concerned and the expectation of it means they have to work harder to cover up their infidelities.. A narcissist, like any parasite, knows that when they have sucked everything out of their host they will die so they have to have the next host lined up as they cannot exist without one.
Domestic and family abuse can take on many forms. From physical assault and manipulation to emotional and financial abuse. One of the challenging issues with this kind of abuse is that its victims are often silenced , due to fear, loss of confidence, lack of access to support networks, because those around them refuse to believe such a nice, caring, loving person could do these things, from being too embarrassed to admit to others what really is happening, to being so stripped financially they simply can't afford to pay for legal help. As a result survivors lose their voice, their confidence, their self worth and dignity, and in extreme cases, their life.

Matthew Reed

1/1/2018 11:05:05 am

Read the email on the new page from Marian. It really blows the lid on how they work. Have read similar but that really opens it up. When you put it side by side with what's on this site, especially the emails from him to his then wife plus all the endorsements from friends, family, her grandsons school and even that government department you can see plain as day how he worked everyone to first get his visa, everything he could from her then the sick way he discarded her. And from what i have heard he is still trying to suck people in with his engine thing, time to give it up buddy, you have been well and truly exposed for what you are. No one is interested anymore. Next step is to discard his current source of supply and move on, only with this one, she deserves all she gets. The female version of him, be interesting to see who gives who the boot first, been told its coming. Feel sorry for her kids but she has to answer for that, she deliberately threw them in the cesspool.

Helen Turner

1/1/2018 01:52:03 pm

You have to wonder how anyone could tell so many straight out lies and manipulate the truth for so long and get away with it. I know people reinvent themselves but these two do it on an almost daily basis. How long did it take them putting their heads together to get their stories straight and lined up in this case. ? Absolutely bloody pathetic that there are still those who hang on their every word. Thanks for the email post, it shows the how and why. I checked out the recommended web site, asked a few questions and was surprised by some of the answers and stories, practically identical to what these two have done for years. It was difficult to accept that there really are people like this everywhere in the world . But at least i now know the signs to watch out for. The thing that shocked me the most was that they don't think they have done anything wrong, play the victims and never ever apologize to those they have hurt, used, abuse and lied about. Once you have passed your use by date and discarded, you simply do not exist. I have to wonder if their screwed up hard wiring is nature or nurture. Lots of theories but nothing definite, if any of you have an ideas would be good to hear them..

Jesse Franklin

1/2/2018 12:41:36 pm

03/01/18

In Brissy, good to catch up with Lady Di, will get back to posting emails in a few days.
In the meantime:::
Your 50 today old mate. Can you name one good, decent , kind, unselfish thing you have done in those 50 years?. No? Didn't think so.
The list of your misdeeds, the pain, destruction and trail of damage you have left in your wake is too long to mention. It's the stuff nightmares are made of, so in a way it's good for you that you refuse to acknowledge any of it or you would never get a peaceful night's sleep.
50 years and not one bloody thing you can say you have accomplished that your proud of , that in itself is some sort of record that only someone like you would be proud of. Well done old man. Keep chasing that dragon, it's getting faster and your getting slower.

Hayley Miller

1/4/2018 12:12:17 pm

You have to ask yourself WHY?? So many people from around the world are saying the exact same thing about them. Even going on the assumption that only half of it is true that should be enough to cause you to take a step back, look at it again, check out the facts, see behind the excuses and tales of woe and ask yourself what have you missed, are you being manipulated by them? For what reason? And most importantly!! Why so many are telling the same story about them and those like them??. In their case people from different countries, different backgrounds, different companies where they have worked, family members, children who are now grown up, ex partners, ex friends, past employers, past co workers, any one who has had any interaction with them , then ask yourself… is it possible that all these people are wrong, are lying and why ???. The facts speak for themselves, these people are not lying , they are not wrong, they have no reason to and nothing to gain. In fact by speaking out, they in some cases, they have a lot to lose. So why don't they just let it go?, because they want it acknowledged that this happened, that they were used, abused, manipulated, that they have suffered emotionally, financially, career wise and in many other ways that have ruined their life and the lives of those around them, they want to be heard, they want others to know what they have done to hopefully prevent the same happening to them, they know the pain and despair they have gone through and opposite to them, they are decent caring human beings who want to give others the chance, a warning ,a warning they were not given, to walk away from them.
They are evil.
They are liers on a grand scale.
They use, abuse, manipulate , trample on then kick to the curb anyone that can be of any use to them to give them what they want.
This includes their own family members and children.
They feel no remorse or guilt.
They are experts at playing the victim to get sympathy and support.
Anyone and i mean ANYONE, is simply a commodity, a tool to be used in any way that suits their purpose.
You are nothing more to them that that.
As for love? They don't feel it , they use it. To pretend they love you is the best tool in their arsenal of weapons.
When the shit hits the fan and the boat starts sinking they will grab every life jacket for themselves and float happily away leaving you to drown without a second thought and then throw the blame on to you when asked what happened. That is the way they rationalise their actions and make excuses for themselves.
So after reading this site and checking out the thousands of others that are available and you still fawn at their feet, then you have nobody to blame but yourself when you find yourself chucked on the rubbish tip, because you ,like everyone around them, have a use by date.
So stop fooling yourself, see the truth.

Alex Jackson

1/5/2018 11:15:08 am

Your spot on there. Them and those like them are so cold and calculating that they do not do anything unless there is something in it for them, supply of some sort. It could be something simple like support and sympathy or a step up the corporate ladder, your experience to help them with some sort of project/job, to worm their way into your family, a roof over their head and a warm bed and food, or financial gain. You have a better job, house, car, husband, wife. You have something they want,,, that's the bottom line. If your honest with yourself and think about everything they have done you will see what it is that you supply them with and how they have manipulated you or manipulated someone close to you to get it. Don't fool yourself into thinking they love, like, respect, admire or accept you because they don't, your just something to use to get what they want and they feel absolutely nothing for you, NOTHING!!!. When they have whatever it is you can supply, then you cease to exist, their attitude towards you changes and your pretty much ignored and unless they need your presence for some reason, l.e. Work or family connections , they will magnanimously keep you hooked but behind your back complain and lie about you. .Eventually you will be disposed of. And that is a FACT .

Evelyn Frost

1/6/2018 06:09:41 pm

Frost is my married name, there could be some family connection with this lady but not one that i am aware of. The following statement is a true and accurate description of a Narcissist without all the confusing technical and medical explanations.

Narcissists work on a primitive level. They operate on a different plain than normal, decent, moral people. They are predators and you are only prey. They have no restraints in place to stop them victimizing others for their own gain. They live in a dog eat dog world where the only way they know how to get what they want is to lie, cheat, use, abuse, manipulate, pretend and make promises they fail to keep.
Narcissists all have that predatory stare, you just have to look deeper for it sometimes, forget the smile, the words and the caring persona. If you watch them closely you will notice that they focus on your physical movements like a snake hunting prey. Not only are they scanning for any sign of weakness they are also picking up gestures and parts of identities they find attractive to add to their fake persona wardrobe that they will mirror back to you giving you the illusion that they share the same traits and ideas as you.
Don't get hung up on the false hope that the Narcissist is going to wake up one day and decide to be a kind, decent, moral human being. Don't waste your time waiting for them to give an apology, genuine or fake, It's never going to happen, they are hard wired into who and what they are and as far as they are concerned they are right and you are wrong. If you have been used and discarded by a Narcissist then to them you served your purpose and no longer exist . It would be like expecting that predatory snake to suddenly become the scared little rabbit. A snake might shed its skin and start out looking all smart and new just like a Narcissist does but it's still a snake and you're still the prey.

Tammi Schultz

1/8/2018 04:07:05 am

My mother waited for almost 15 years for the narcissistic bastard of an excuse for a father and husband to keep his promise that he would come home when he “ sorted himself out “, that what he was doing was for them, that it might take a long time ,to trust him and wait for him because he loved her. It ruined her life and the chance to find a good decent man and be happy. In those 15 years he never bothered to see me once, he married twice and had numerous partners and jobs. When he was old , broke and not one single person cared about him and he had nothing, he came looking for me and expected me to welcome him into my life again, i slammed the door in his face .
They dont change, so dont waste your time waiting for them to say they are sorry. .They are greedy, selfish, liars who expect the world to fall at their feet.
Why That Person Who Hurt You Will Never Apologize
Harriet Lerner Ph.D.
Here's why the worst offenders can't say "I'm sorry."
How can we understand people who do great harm, yet feel no remorse and won't say, "I'm sorry"?
The worse the offense and the greater the shame, the more difficult it is for the wrongdoer to empathize with the harmed party and feel remorse. Instead one tells oneself, “It wasn’t my fault,” or “I couldn’t help myself,” or “It’s not that big a deal.” Self-protective explanations often shift the blame onto the harmed party as ever deeper levels of self-deception come into play. One tells oneself, “She/ he really asked for it,” “I did it for her/ his own good,” or, “It was necessary,” and even, “It never happened.”
But that said, the human capacity for self-deception is extraordinary. Whether the context is personal or political, all of us can create layers of defensiveness when we cannot face the shame of having violated our values and having harmed others.
It's useful to understand that the person who has betrayed, abused, or neglected you is the least likely to ever get it and apologize. For people who do serious harm, defensiveness is not merely a roadblock they can get past after you do the best possible job confronting them with your anger and pain. When people have lost sight of their value and worth defensiveness is where they live. They will stay wrapped in a blanket of defensiveness and denial in order to survive.
As I explain in Why Won't You Apologize?, it's always easier to offer a sincere apology for small things than for serious transgressions. If you're waiting for an apology from the person who harmed you, don't hold your breath. You can move forward in your life with optimism and hope without it.

Alex Jackson

1/8/2018 01:10:05 pm

You did the right thing by ignoring him. They never change.

In a previous post I wrote about three reasons you can’t win with a narcissist. Here are three more reasons you’re bound to lose when you’re dealing with a profoundly selfish person who lacks empathy, makes you feel small and robs you of the happiness you deserve.
1. Narcissists make you feel guilty when you experience happiness because they expect you to put their happiness first. When you reward yourself with something you’ve earned, are you suddenly filled with guilt? You feel like you’re somehow shirking your duties or being irresponsible. It’s like you have no right to take time for yourself or even feel happy. It’s actually a clever trick of the narcissist. You feel like you’re doing something wrong when you’re happy because the narcissist isn’t happy. If you’re taking time for yourself, that’s time you’re “stealing” from them. The “duty” you’re shirking is your duty to be available to meet the narcissist’s needs. Even if they acknowledge that you deserve what you earned , they don’t understand why you insist on “hurting” them. How can you be happy if they’re unhappy? This question leads me to my next point:
5. The narcissist will never be happy. “Contrary to the common misperception, narcissists aren’t arrogant even if they act arrogant,” explains Pavel G. Somov, Ph.D. “They simply don’t feel good about themselves.” Despite incalculable self-importance, the narcissist doesn’t have high self-esteem. They coat themselves in praise and approval from others to hide their biggest fear. As Jonice Webb, Ph.D., wrote:
That unwavering self-confidence is as brittle as an eggshell. Narcissists don’t move back and forth on a continuum of self-esteem as the rest of us do. … Under that fragile, brittle cover lies a hidden pool of insecurity and pain. Deep down, the narcissist’s deepest and most powerful fear is that he is a nothing. People in the narcissist’s life have to go to great lengths to secure their approval, if that’s even possible. In the end, we do want to make them happy. Perhaps if they were satisfied, we think, we could all be joyful and content together. This is an impossibility. The narcissist isn’t going to wake up one day and finally be optimistic or considerate. They’re not going to call you up and say, “Thanks so much for all the things you’ve done for me.” They’re not going to move mountains to help you out. They’re not going to be proud of your accomplishments or sincerely congratulate you. And they will always take everything you do personally — because after all they can’t imagine how anything could have nothing to do with them. When you’re not with the narcissist it’s as if you cease to exist.
6. They will never be happy for you. Misery loves company. Without empathy, it’s impossible for the narcissist to know or recognize what makes you happy. They are unwilling to think about your needs. They lack insight into your emotions. They believe you should feel the same way they feel. “Most narcissists lack the capacity to give significant, authentic love and empathy, and you have no choice but to deal with this reality … Let go of the expectation that it will ever be different,” If you find happiness and you’re doing something right, don’t expect a narcissist to pat you on the back. Your success only reminds them of their own shortcomings. This makes them feel insecure and they’re certain that’s your fault. Because the narcissist doesn’t believe in live and let live, you’re nothing if you’re not serving their needs. Living your truth means you can’t sustain a narcissist’s approval. Setting healthy boundaries is the only way you can meet your own needs, and it would seem this would inevitably leave the narcissist out in the cold.
By Sarah Newman, MA

Jesse Franklin

1/8/2018 01:35:03 pm

With all the allegations of abuse in the media at the moment from so many people in different countries , from bullying ,emotional and financial abuse to sexual harassment it looks like people are finally realizing that not everyone is who they appear to be. Slamming the door in his face sent a clear message to him that you know the truth and want nothing to do with him. It's what we all should do to those like him. Unfortunately there will always be those who refuse to see the true person and in a way you have to feel sorry for them because they have to live with the part they play in condoning what they have done .

Marian Lightfoote

1/8/2018 11:15:20 pm

It is refreshing to see so many people standing up and telling their stories, its sites like this and others that give them the courage to openly admit what has happened to them. The bullying, manipulation, abuse, emotional, physical, financial and sexual that goes on in the entertainment industry has for many many years been a hidden secret that you did not talk about openly. The same applies to political parties, large corporations and really just about any area where there are multiple people employed, you complain then you suffer by losing your position , your credibility, your dignity and you are blacklisted to the point where you will not get offered another position, then lets not forget the domestic situation, narcissistic abuse is and has been around since human beings have been but previously it was kept hidden, there was no one you could talk to about it, no way you were going to be believed , no name given to it, you were told to put up with it or get out and it has taken the the media exposure to being it out into the open. The internet has been the life line for those who have been abused with hundreds of sites exposing these people, giving victims the chance to talk together, to expose the abusers and for the law to finally take notice. The next step is to point out just how many women and men have been subjected to emotional and financial abuse by a partner, it will give these victims the chance to stand up and be heard in court and notice finally will be taken of them, no longer will the abuser be allowed to lie their way out of giving proper financial support to their partner, no longer will children be used as leverage, no longer will the victim be accused of wrongdoing. These narcissistic predators , manipulators, bullies will be held accountable.
I am proud of Dianne and all the other women and men who have stood up and said, NO, i did nothing wrong, they did. It took courage to take this step , more courage than the enablers have.
The following is so true and something you need to take into account when the narcissistic bullies cry foul. Ask yourself , “ can so many people be lying?, For what reason? They are asking for nothing more than the truth be told and the abuser be seen for who and what they really are, not the person they pretend to be. There are those out there who know the facts, the truth and it's time they stood by the victims and supported them.
.
“”” The Narcissist will resort to damage control when their bullying tactics or mistreatment of others is exposed by their victim. They will say that the person laying these charges against them is unstable, lying, jealous or any other number of smears to divert the attention away from the hideous acts the narcissist committed and try to put negative attention on the victim so their claims appear to be untrustworthy and not to be believed.”””
Yvonne Clerebout. www.stopthenarcissistsnow.com

Jesse Franklin

1/9/2018 01:24:24 pm

Your not the only one who is proud of the stand she took, she did not go and crawl under a rock to hide as he expected or end her life as he tried to manipulate her into doing. You do have to wonder just how much input the other woman had in that. The realisation of what she had tried to do was the catalyst that made her accept the truth. And to decide to fight back by exposing him and well, really both of them for who they really are. She gained nothing from it except the hope that it might make others realise the truth and step in to prevent them doing it to others. In fact she was subjected to vile and disgusting abuse and accusations and still is occasionally from their enablers, but most people have now realised and accepted the truth and a lot have come forward with their own stories about them to back up what she has revealed. More need to be like her and all the others who have recently spoken out about high profile individuals who have gotten away with similar crimes because of who they are and yes, i do get a glow of pride in them for being strong enough to say, “enough is enough, this has to stop and these people need to be held accountable for their actions”. There are those out there who have no understanding of just how hard and emotionally devastating it was for her and those others to speak out, to have to relive it and accept that in her case, it was nothing but a set up and lies by him from the beginning to get what he wanted, and in doing so he destroyed her life and the lives of innocent children without so much as a second thought or any feeling of remorse or guilt.. They both have a lot to be held accountable for, not only in this instant but in so many others previous to this. So yes, myself and a lot of others are proud of her and all the others who had the courage to speak out and will continue to support her for as long as it takes. Hopefully there are those who will support all the others as well. The truth is out there you just have to look for it and when you find it, believe it.
.If something or someone feels wrong then it or they probably are. If someone shows jealousy, tries to manipulate or control you or others , blames you or others for things you know you or they did not do, takes credit for what you or others have done, straight out lies or makes up stories, if you see behaviours that make you doubt someone, then trust your gut feelings , trust your intuition, dont turn from the truth, it will eventually catch up with you.
Don't think that you can handle it and stay silent or that someone else will say something because it's not your problem or hope that they will change their behaviour. When someone allows you to see glimpses of their true nature , believe what you see. Staying silent, ignoring the issue makes you an enabler and gives them a signal that they can do it and get away with it. Protect yourself, protect those around you, stand up for yourself and them, it's the right thing to do.

"" To heal from the damage the narcissist caused we must admit that we were fooled and that what was taken from us was our innocence.
We were naive about the fact that such vile people exist.
It's nothing to be ashamed of, don't take on the shame that the narcissist should be feeling.
Don't let them project that on you, that's their way to shut you up about their dirty deeds.
You were kind to them under extreme circumstances , you loved them, cared about them and believed they felt the same about you. That is not a thing to be ashamed of.
Seeing them in their true light, under the mask , is the only way to deal with them.
Forever look behind the mask and never forget the glimpses of the real person that you see.""

Yvonne Clerebout. Stopthenarcissistsnow.com

This woman knows what she is talking about and her website is worth reading for not only those who have been used by a narcissist but by those close to them who do not understand what really happened.

Jesse Franklin

1/10/2018 01:11:17 am

I have been asked by several people for more details about the suicide attempt, im sure its in the website but will give a condensed version.
He is confused, doesn't know what he wants etc etc, more like “ who” he wants as he is having the affair and is being pushed into making a choice as far as i have been told. Either his wife or Liz, as i was informed she had given him an ultimatum, “ Get a divorce because i am not getting involved with a married man again”. Many emails to Di saying he loves her, to trust him, to wait for him, etc etc, Di still has them all on file. Plus weekend visits to her. Then the tone of the emails change and become more confused, till finally he states, “ if we cant be together in this life then we will be in the next”, he eventually convinces her that dying together is the only option, so they agree to take sleeping pills at the same time but!!! At their own places, not actually together. Di does but by sheer luck her daughter decides to call in to see her that night and finds her, she spent 3 days in intensive care and 6 weeks in hospital. Several family members rang where he was working and told whoever the staff member who took the call and they said they would make sure he got the message, follow up calls were made and they were told the messages had been given to him but as Liz and her niece both worked there it's hard to know who took the messages and if they were given to him but you have to assume that he did by what followed next. Anyway, he obviously changed his mind about the suicide , thats if he actually intended to go through with it .
When Di came out of intensive care is the day he filed for divorce, stating he had not had contact with her for months and did not know where she was so the papers could not be served in her . Obvious lies, he knew… He then contacts her when she is discharged from hospital again by email and told her he did NOT know she had been in hospital and that as he had not heard from her he assumed she wanted nothing to do with him, another lie.. How did he know she was out of hospital?? Or that she had been in hospital??. More lies. But!! He does not tell her about the divorce. She finds that out from a member of Liz’s family who rang her because they could see what was going on and did not believe anything either of them said. That was in February 2014, he applied for the divorce in November 2013. Di contacted the family court and told them that he had lied so the application was rejected and he had to file it again. The divorce went through uncontested on 23rd May 2014. That was when Di realised with the help of her therapist that she had been played by him firstly then by them both and so after speaking to her solicitor, myself and several others, the website was created.
I also have many emails from him sent from both his personal email and his work email, we corresponded for several months and in every single one he states that he loves her, that what he is doing is for her and the family, that he is coming back,that hurting her is tearing his heart out and all the usual lies and BS, for me to take care of her and keep her safe for him. I am ashamed to admit that i actually believed him at first and acted as a go between for him. But the truth finally came out and i felt lousy about it. .
Any further questions then ask and i will try to answer them.

Alex Jackson

1/11/2018 03:29:23 am

Yeah, it's all there on the site but its long and complicated to read because it has a lot of emails to and from each other on it and you lose track of the issue. Your condensed version is easier to understand and it gives a clearer picture of what he or rather they ,were doing. He sure didn't waste any time filing for divorce when he obviously found out she was going to be ok. I wonder if that was Plan B??. The whole thing really makes you stop and think.
Don't beat yourself up over being sucked in by him, your not the only one ,i can see why you are so involved and committed to this now.

Max Rosenburg

1/11/2018 06:26:41 pm

What you wrote has left me floundering for words. I don't know what to say. I know what im thinking and probably a lot of others are thinking the same.

Helen Turner

1/11/2018 07:03:01 pm

There is the right way and the wrong way to end a marriage or any relationship and he took the wrong way. Their marriage was only of a short duration before he left and from what i know she did not push him into the marriage , in fact he pushed her into it. He should have been honest about it all and just left and went to the other woman with what he had, if their relationship was genuine she would not have cared if he came to her with a million dollars or just the clothes on his back, that's the way he came to his wife and she accepted him that way. But instead but he lied and manipulated her emotionally till he got everything she had, that says a lot about his character and his motives, well actually about both of them. . He was given the ultimatum, “ Get rid of your wife or its over between us”, That should have been enough to make him call it off because if someone cares about you they don't dictate ultimatums to you, they don't pressure you into doing what they want, they do what his wife did, give him space and time to sort things out without applying pressure and be there to support them. She had been rejected by one man when she gave him the same ultimatum , he chose his wife and family over her. Sounds like she was desperate and wasn't going to let that happen again. Absolutely no feeling of guilt or remorse from either of them for what they did. When a person is pushed or threatened into doing something it always ends in disaster eventually. Not telling her about the divorce says quite a lot, including that he knew what he was doing was the wrong thing. He didn't even have the courage to do that. As for the suicide pact, that's a strange one, maybe at the time he was being pushed so hard he really felt it was the only way?, Who knows?. Seems like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place , did he jump when he was told to or was he pushed? Or was the rock thrown at his wife and by whom?. Lots of unanswered questions there. It seems the Narcissistic abuser , manipulator came up against someone who was better at it than he was, poetic justice?. Is there really any love between them, any commitment, any respect , i would have to say not. They might have got what they wanted but it was by default and is damaged goods.
Thanks for the condensed version, it has opened up a few unanswered questions and revealed things that were never told. I am sure that Dianne or anyone else does not hold you responsible for believing him, at least you saw the truth before to much damage was done.

Karen Matthews

1/12/2018 12:17:42 am

Oh please, don't start feeling sorry for him with “ maybe he was confused, maybe he did intend to do the suicide thing” it's exactly what he wants. He knew exactly what he was doing and could have stopped it at any time. When he first took up her offer of sex he knew that he was breaking his marriage vows, that he was cheating on and lying to someone who cared about him a great deal. He could have said NO!, his arm was twisted till it broke and no gun was held to his head. He could have stopped it at that point but he didn't. When the ultimatums and demands started he could have said, No! “It's wrong and i can't do that to her, she deserves better,” and stopped it then but he didn't.. He didn't have to keep her hoping and supporting him and lying to her for so long, he could have told her the truth, but he didn't.. If that suicide was genuine on his part but he changed his mind, he knew she wouldn't, she trusted him so much she believed him and he could have stopped her, but he didn't.. If it was a quick easy way to get rid of her he KNEW it was wrong, evil, sick. But i guess playing the grieving widower and her suicide would have given credence to everything he had been saying about her being unstable , cruel, an abuser and as a bonus he would have been given everything as her husband, im sure there were insurance policies etc that would have come his way, all the debts in her name would have been wiped and the sympathy he would have been given would be one more feather in his cap to exploit. You do have to wonder which one it was as he is the only one who knows but going on his actions after it, i know which way i am thinking. He didn't have to write out that agreement to support her knowing full well it could not be legally enforced just to show her her really cared about her and was coming back when he sorted himself out to keep her quiet and supporting him , but he did… When he found out she was in the hospital and he knew!!! He could have stopped it there and then with that other woman , gone to see her, felt some remorse and guilt, begged her to forgive him, told her the whole dirty story, but he didn't !! He ignored it and pretended he didn't know… He didn't have to file for divorce while she was in the hospital, lie about not knowing where she was, he could have asked any of her family as he knew where they all lived, but he didn't… He could have come clean about it all , asked for a divorce and worked out a financial arrangement with her that didn't leave her living in her car, but he didn't.. He didn't have to keep her in the dark about it until someone else told her as he was in contact with her, still stringing her along with declarations of love and lying all the time. He could have told her about the other woman and that he fell in love with her but he kept that hidden right up until she found out about the divorce. There are so many times he could have stopped it, but he didn't. So he knew exactly what he was doing and keeping his affair a secret and hidden shows he didn't care much about the other woman either. I agree with you on one thing, there is no love, respect, caring or trust between them, they both know what they did and have done the same before and they are both fully aware that either one of them can and probably will do the same thing again. So please do not under any circumstances feel sorry for him. He has had more than enough time to see just how disgusting he is and how much damage he has done and at least tried to minimise it , but not so much as even an, “ i'm sorry, i could have done this different, i was wrong in what i did.”. Makes you wonder how either of them can even look at each other or themselves in a mirror. . Ignoring what they did, pretending it never happened, regardless of who was the instigator, is not going to make it go away. And those few people around them who still believe their bullshit and lies should be ashamed of themselves or felt sorry for. Depends on who you are.

Marian Lightfoote

1/12/2018 12:00:03 pm

Karen, The following two articles might give some insight and understanding into the points you made. The bottom line is… if you have something they want, be it a material possession, a position of employment or a person such as a husband/ wife/ partner they don’t care how they get it, who gets hurt or how much damage they cause to achieve it.
"The real narcissist is a character disordered person. He is willfully divorced from his human core and drives to form meaningful empathy-based, social relationships, out of disgust for them as weakness, to be used against the target.
In his thought-disordered worldview, he associates empathy, compassion, love with those who are inferior, stupid, crazy — and potentially dangerous competitors, “deserving” to be hurt, exploited, enslaved.
He is proud of the lies and illusions he spins, his con-artistry skills in general, and lusts to rob his partner of a sense of worth, sanity, dignity, agency, peace of mind , assets and money— believing this makes his superiority dazzle, he is better than them in every way so deserves to have everything they own and the right to put them in their place. He knows exactly what he is doing, nothing is a mistake or left to chance, he thinks out and plans every move he makes to gain what he wants and cause as much damage as possible and to come out of it looking like the innocent victim. " note:: “ He “ is a term used but “she “can be equally applied.
~ Dr. Althea Staik, PhD
"They are members of a sub-species who are called psychopaths / narcissists - this sub-species are wired and motivated in a completely different way to the rest of us. Understand psychopathology / narcissism properly and everything they say or do makes sense! Yes it's completely immoral and wrong but it is absolutely NOTHING to do with being an idiot, dementia, madness, not having a brain!. A narcissists behaviour is never isolated. Its a pattern of cruel, disgusting , vile behaviour is expressed in a myriad of ways. They know exactly what they are doing and how to get the biggest impact and gains for themselves. They can spend weeks, months, years manipulating and grooming a person or situation to give them the greatest return." ~ Martin Green

Max Rosenburg

1/12/2018 12:37:32 pm

Well said young lady. You have really researched this situation and from the tone of it i get the impression that you have been down a similar road. Stay strong.

Taylah Pierce

1/12/2018 07:05:08 pm

There is a facebook page called , stopthenarcissistsnow, it gives great information. with facebook there are hundreds of pages and peoples stories, go read them before you give an opinion. Her daughter jumping to defend him like she did is an idiot and needs to get the facts straight. Not everyone is a good person and tells the truth. That includes your own family.
I cut and pasted this from facebook.
Narcissists can't bond with you or anyone else ,that's why when you call them out on one of their lies they are ready to hit the door. You are just there to adore and obey them and if you don't play your role they will move on to someone who will. This new person will eventually have a disagreement with them or call them out on their bullshit. They will then be discarded just like you were and many others have been.

. . When the narcissist is caught out in a lie or they have a really bad story and excuse for explaining their behaviour they start freaking out and blame you for interrogating them. They can get very aggressive and defensive if you did a bit of research and have proof that they are lying. They will say that something is wrong with you for investigating the incident instead of believing their lies and in a personal situation, you don't love them, care about them, instead you listen others lies about them. Attacking you also takes the spotlight off them and puts the focus on you to the point where you have to defend yourself.
Psychological projection can be described as a defense strategy narcissists employ to cope with their own unacceptable feelings , motivations, emotions, abuse and manipulations by attributing these on to another person. A narcissist will denigrate their target /victim in terms that would more fittingly describe themselves. They may describe someone as being rude, dishonest, of low morals, a hypocrite, a user, liar , selfish and greedy when they are, in fact, describing how they themselves act.

Marian Lightfoote

1/12/2018 11:37:36 pm

This might help explain some of the issues both Karen and Helen raised and commented on in their posts. .
Closure...Not So Fast
Closure is a healthy part of ending a relationship. You each get to say your peace. You both apologize for any unintentional and/or intentional hurts. You say goodbye and wish each other well. A less satisfying form of closure is when you had a relationship with someone who wasn’t considerate, wasn’t invested in the relationship or just wasn’t ready for commitment. If this person is a reality-based, reasonably sane adult then you break up and state how they hurt you.
Attempting to obtain closure with an emotionally abusive, narcissist is always a maddening exercise in futility.
You will never get closure with this kind of person. NEVER. They don't meet the three most important prerequisites for giving and receiving closure:
A reasonable degree of sanity.
A foothold in reality.
Empathy.
Being able to give an ex closure means you’re able to accept your responsibility for the demise of the relationship and when have they ever taken responsibility for ther behaviour, especially when they were was clearly in the wrong? Do you really think they are going to admit to any of the relationship atrocities they committed during the relationship now that it’s over?
If you’re waiting for this to happen or, heaven forbid, an apology from this person;
IT IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
https://afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com/…/closure-not…/

Alex Jackson

1/13/2018 12:44:49 pm

Everything that has been said recently about how he or they treated his wife is true and neither of them can deny it, they lie about it, make up their own stories of events but the facts speak for themselves, lets not forget that it wasn't an isolated one off thing, they have both done the same thing before. It should also be pointed out that they have done similar things to others in employment situations as well, take a good hard look at their track records for places they have worked, others careers destroyed, companies that had to go into damage control, and in one instant in his working life a company that went to the wall because of his actions, incompetence , lack of experience and lies. Marriages, relationships, people damaged or destroyed because of her screwing around with most of the male employees, married or not, the same applies to him, both predators looking for the next source of supply. Ok, you don't believe it, that's your choice but before you dismiss anything at least make the effort to find out the truth. For example… ask yourself just how many jobs they have had in the last 10 years, why did they leave or were asked to leave, i know the reasons they give and so do you, others were jealous of them, others lied about them, others blamed them for mistakes, others took credit for their work etc etc etc, always the same story, they were the VICTIMS. Doesn't that in itself tell you something is not right?. Go talk to previous employers, other staff , you will get some that will still back them as some of you are but the majority wont, from what i saw first hand to stories i have been told by others i know what the true facts are.
The narcissist is a split personality in the way they have many faces for different people. To upstanding moral people they will portray themselves as being moral and upstanding. To an animal lover they will act like they care deeply for the welfare of animals, to a religious person they will act religious, to a gay person they will act like someone who accepts them, in their professional life they will come across as experienced, a go getter , committed to their job, kind, generous and helpful to others , in any situation they find themselves they will mirror that person or persons. but behind their back they will be laughing at them for being so easy to fool. If you look closely you will see the mask slip and change as the situations and environment does. So don't be fooled, they are not who you think they are.
The narcissist is a pathological liar. They lie compulsively to make their lives appear more interesting, to make others look small, to destroy someone's reputation, to make themselves look better, and to play the victim to circumstances they created to gain sympathy. If caught out in their lies they will tell more to cover up their lies and deception. When they do tell the truth its in misleading ways to give others misleading perspectives. By denying their own negative qualities and attributing them to others , the narcissist can absolve themselves of blame, known as blame shifting. Narcissists see themselves as faultless and blame those around them for the very things that they do themselves. They will criticize others, play the good guy, , distancing themselves from any responsibility and will not accept that the disfunction is their own. Projection allows the narcissist to justify their unacceptable behaviour.

Jess Franklin

1/15/2018 11:48:02 am

Just a quick reply to all the comments on here, questions asked and emails received and read ,just no time to reply to each one. ..
One of the most telling statements made by a narcissist I know is: "the only reason neither one of us has cheated on one another, is because neither of us had the opportunity yet," and it wasn't a joke! When the opportunity arises and it will, then they will take it.
Truly abusive people, men or women, are out for themselves. These are the narcissists and sociopaths who walk among us in plain clothes. Abusive men and women rely on these five strategies to gratify their needs ahead of or at the expense of their partner:
DENIAL
Even with fingers caught in the cookie jar, the abusive person is apt to outright deny wrongdoing. I didn’t do that. That’s not what you saw! This is quite crazy making for the those who live with them. These people are left questioning their own perceptions, seeking to resolve the cognitive dissonance between their experience and their partner’s description of what appears as an alternate reality. Bottom line: If you experience something with your own senses, don’t question yourself and don’t take your partner’s bunk.
DISTORTION
Distortion differs from denial in that while some truths are admitted to, they are manipulated to suit the abuser’s point of view. With distortion, they can turn a lie into a plausible truth: I may have done such and so, but I was just joking around. Because they rely on a half lie, the abusive man or woman can be more difficult to hold accountable. The partner who is subject to this form of manipulation is apt to give the abuser multiple chances, feeling the need to have absolute certainty before they can really catch the abuser at this game. Bottom line: Don’t let them play games with your mind. If it smells bad, it is bad.
DEFLECTION
The abuser that uses deflection never addresses any issue put to him or her. Rather, they are apt to barrage you with a host of other issues to throw you off the scent. They will make anything other than themselves the issue and will be on it like a junkyard dog on a bone. What are you blaming me for? You know your mother/ sister/ friend doesn’t like me. Quit listening to them and we would be all right. Their the problem between us! Don’t let yourself be misguided. Stick with the facts and continue to hold the abuser accountable. Don’t let him or her throw others under the bus to save themself.
DECEPTION
Abusive men and women like to get away with whatever they can. The tactics include sneaking, stealing, cheating and lying. These are the ones who will tell you they are out with friends or are working late when having a sexual meet-up . As long as they don’t get caught, they continue to lie. Catch them in a lie and they are apt to deny, distort or deflect. How many lies do you have to catch your partner in before you get the message; this is an abusive, deceptive person. No solid relationship can be built on lies.
.
DENIGRATION
Denigration is a verbally violent tactic of the abusive men or women. These are put-downs that are meant to cause their partner to feel bad. To the degree they can make their partner feel bad, they elevate their own status. These people will demean and/or blame you for any issue originating with them. This kind of abuse is particularly dangerous to your self-esteem. Once you accept that you are a lowly dog, they have full control of you and will use you up and spit you out when finished. Don’t let anyone put you down and even if he or she uses sarcasm, that is nothing but verbal abuse in disguised as humor.
.
Sadly, abusive men and women live among us and what’s worse; they can hide like wolves in sheep’s clothing. They can appear charming and they will try to work their way into your heart. They seek to ingratiate themselves to you. However, once in, they’re out to exploit. Try and thwart them and they rely on these tactics to hold power so they can continue to win their way for their own gratification.
.
Gary Direnfeld.

Julie Cavanagh

1/16/2018 04:42:15 pm

If more people lived like this we would not have sites like this.
Advices from my grandpa.
Your fences need to be horse-high, pig-tight and bull-strong.
Keep skunks and bankers at a distance.
Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.
A bumble bee is considerably faster than a John Deere tractor.
Words that soak into your ears are whispered… not yelled.
Meanness don’t jes’ happen overnight.
Forgive your enemies; it messes up their heads.
Do not corner something that you know is meaner than you.
It don’t take a very big person to carry a grudge.
You cannot unsay a cruel word.
Every path has a few puddles.
When you wallow with pigs, expect to get dirty.
The best sermons are lived, not preached.
Most of the stuff people worry about ain’t never gonna happen anyway.
Don’t judge folks by their relatives.
Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
Live a good, honorable life… Then when you get older and think back, you’ll enjoy it a second time.
Don ‘t interfere with somethin’ that ain’t bothering you none.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a Rain dance.
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin’.
Sometimes you get, and sometimes you get got.
The biggest troublemaker you’ll probably ever have to deal with, watches you from the mirror every mornin’.
Always drink upstream from the herd.
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.
Lettin’ the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier than puttin’ it back in.
If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..
Truth is overused, listen to what your told, then question it. Saves ya lookin like a fool most times.
Any man that hurts a lady is no man.
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.
Most times, it just gets down to common sense and wading thru the bullshit to see whats right.

Max Rosenburg

1/18/2018 01:08:44 am

Your grandpa got it right but there are to many scammers out there who take advantage of good decent people. The two people this site is about are good examples, not very nice or trustworthy people at all.

Jess Franklin

1/18/2018 11:24:52 am

A person contacted Dianne and told her certain things that have happened recently. She was angry enough to let fire for once. She sent me this and asked that it be posted.
A lot of articles about Narcissists tell you that you have to forgive your abuser in order to recover and move on with your life.I am sure this comes from those who have never personally felt the effects of Narcissistic abuse or who believe the bible where it says to do so, i dont believe in that fanciful story or some invisible god, so, No, that just doesn't cut it with me. These people have never had to endure what they put you through. They have never felt what you felt. Only you know the physical and emotional pain this person made you feel. Only you know how it feels to lose everything from your home full of memories to a painting done by your child in kindergarten and leave you with nothing from your life to look at and remember the good times. Only you know what it feels like to have debt collectors knocking on your door. Only you know what it feels like to lose your pride and dignity by relying on others to put a roof over your head and food on your plate..They dont know what its like to look at your bank statement and wonder where all the money went. They dont know and they dont care, they got what they wanted. If you want to forgive them, by all means go ahead, and if you don't, well that's entirely up to you. I can honestly say that I have not forgiven and i never will. I live with and see the damage they caused every day and hear about the damage they are still causing to others. Has my lack of forgiveness stopped me from moving on with my life? Absolutely not. Am I bombarded with thoughts of revenge? No. I rarely think of them at all and the pathetic lives they lead full of lies .I do think about those they are using, abusing and manipulating now especially children and do what i can to minimise the damage, this website is one way. Am I stronger than I was before? Hell yes. After what they put me through, it was fight or die, i chose to fight. So, do what's right for you and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You dont have to forgive because i know that like me you will never forget. So to all of you who say, “ get over it”, “forget it”, until you have been there and felt the pain, until you have the guts to see the truth about them and admit it to yourself, then keep your mouth shut, your doing more harm than good.

Sara Miller

1/19/2018 12:27:27 pm

After reading this and the information on the site it didn’t take long to connect the two.
The Narcissist is an expert at ghosting and repeats it over and over again as an easy way to get out of one relationship and move on to the next.
The opposite of love isn’t hate; it is indifference. Ghosting, for those of you who haven’t yet experienced it, is having someone that you believe cares about you, whether it be a friend or a partner, disappear from contact without any explanation or one that didn’t make sense at all. Ghosting isn’t new—people have long done disappearing acts—years ago this kind of behavior was considered limited to a certain type of male or female. In today’s relationship culture being ghosted is a phenomenon that approximately 50 percent of men and women have experienced, be it in a personal relationship or a friendship. Despite ghosting's commonality, the emotional effects can be devastating.
Why do people ghost? People who ghost , more commonly a Narcissist, are primarily focused on avoiding their own emotional discomfort when their victim has nothing more to give and they want to move on to the next provider and they aren’t thinking about how it makes the other person feel or the damage it causes .
How does it feel to be ghosted? For many people ghosting can result in feelings of being used and disposable. When someone we love and trust disengages from us without any logical reason, it feels like a very deep betrayal.
Why does it feel so bad? Social rejection activates the same pain pathways in the brain as physical pain. But in addition to this biological link between rejection and pain, there are some specific factors about ghosting that contribute to the psychological distress. One of the most insidious aspects of ghosting is that it doesn’t just cause you to question the validity of the relationship you had, it causes you to question yourself. Why didn’t I see this coming? How could I have been such a poor judge of character? What did I do to cause this? How do I protect myself from this ever happening again?
Ghosting is the ultimate use of the silent treatment, a tactic that has often been viewed by mental health professionals as a form of EMOTIONAL CRUELTY. It essentially renders you powerless and leaves you with no opportunity to ask questions or be provided with information that would help you emotionally process the experience. It silences you and prevents you from expressing your emotions and being heard, which is important for maintaining your self-esteem.
Regardless of the ghoster’s intent, ghosting is a PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE interpersonal tactic that leaves psychological bruises and scars.

Susan Taylor-Jones

1/22/2018 03:34:09 pm

Ghosting is something teenage girls are good at doing. One day your one of the in crowd and then the next you don't exist. Your ostracised, ignored and left confused without any explanation. Especially in the groups at high school. Doesn't do much for a teenagers sense of self-worth and does play a role in teenage suicides. Narcissists use it as a fast and easy out. Ignore you, you don't exist, never did, they dont have to explain why to you, they can lie about you and you can't dispute it, because your not here. And more importantly, they don't have to think about you or what they did. You are totally and completely wiped from their memory and their past. .

Jess Franklin

1/20/2018 01:40:58 pm

A person who knows them quite well sent me the following with the comment:: " I have seen this tactic pulled so many times over the years".

Next time you call out a Narcisist on their lies and made up stories , watch their body language, most do the same thing. They will put on the “ poor little innocent me” face and will not look you in the eyes until they have they have spewed out some lame excuse, only then will they look you in the eyes to see if you’ve brought their load of crap. If you don’t buy their story then the tears will well up in their eyes, bottom lip quiver and give you that poor little kicked innocent puppy dog look. Then they will walk away having one last shot as the slink off telling you that you don’t really care about them and how much you have hurt them or they will go on the defensive and become aggressive attacking you for blasting a hole in their false narrative. .

John White

1/22/2018 03:42:57 pm

Yeah, then you get to a point where you just don't give a damn because you know that you can't win, your always wrong and they are always right, so you just walk away and leave them in the la la land they live in. . If you point out a flaw in their story or that its a lie, especially in front of others then you will be punished for a long time . So unless you want your existence to be miserable and be treated like shit, ignore them. It's not worth the drama they will put you through for daring to say they got the story wrong. You know the truth and sooner rather than later others will pick up on it, especially when they start spinning their bullshit you refuse to be a part of it and walk away. And your right about the body language, its a dead set give away.

Chas Dunn

1/22/2018 05:16:17 pm

Read this somewhere, it fits in with what you said. So many articles explaining about people like this and they still have believers?. Guess its true that there is one born every minute.

Remember when the Narcissist had you fooled and you thought highly of them.? Things change even after only a short time with them. You start noticing the things they say don't add up and their circumstances are unusual and odd like, “ the title company lost the title to my house so i can't sell until they find it”, “My doctor refuses to release my medical records because of a glitch in their system,” I couldn't pick up the goods you asked for because the company closed early”, “the register of births got mine mixed up with someone else and that's not really me”, “ i had my own company and was doing well but so and so messed up and i lost it all”, “ i never did anything wrong, it's always someone who is jealous of me that causes the problems” my partner was so abusive to me i have to hide where i am”,. The narcissist will tell you that they are or were the owner/ manager of a business, but when you dig deeper you find out that they were actually a low level employee , thats if the ever worked there at all and the list goes on and on.. . Narcissists always have to act like they are more important than they really are and they lie all the time about everything….. If you have doubts about the many stories you hear from them then check it out yourself, make a phone call, drop in unexpectedly where they work , talk to others who work there or did work there,talk to ex partners, spouses, friends, get to the truth. Finally when enough is enough you start doubting everything they say. But be prepared for the backlash for checking up on them , they dont take kindly to be exposed and will throw the blame back on you. .

Susan Taylor-Jones

1/23/2018 11:29:58 am

This article might be of interest. It gives a comprehensive and simple insight into everything on this website.

The Narcissist needs people in their life more than a normal person does. They need narcissistic supply, your time, attention , the false cover you provide for them as being normal , the ability you give them to take credit for things you do and to prove to themselves and the world just how wonderful , caring, loving they are. Without the attention and admiration of of those around them they cannot survive in a world where they are on their own. They are unable to form normal healthy bonds with anyone , but are experts in manipulating you into bonding with them. Nothing about a relationship with a narcissist is real , it's all a sham to give them the supply they need and that you can provide. The person that you think they are, that they let you see , does not exist, its a role they play for your benefit because they are an accomplished actor and liar.

Where a normal average person can be happy living on their own , a narcissist cant survive without an adoring crowd around them 24/7. This is the one and only reason a female narcissist has children, not out of love for the child or their partner but to have a life long adoring and obedient fan, who fathers the child is of no interest other than as leverage against the father, most female narcissists have children from multiple fathers or if they are in a long time relationship it's always because that person can give them the supply they want and need ,they will not hesitate to pass off a child as being their partners when they know it's the offspring of one of the many men they have had affairs with. Or if they are looking for a new source of supply they will use the child to emotionally blackmail that person to get them especially if that person is married. The narcissist female or male does not hesitate to target a person who is in a relationship or married if they think that person can be a source of supply for them, there are no feelings of love involved in this, just greed and jealousy. Narcissists take jealousy and envy to the extreme, resulting in pathological jealousy and pathological envy. – and the results can be devastating to those on the receiving end. .

There are many ways to be despicable but the worst way to show just how despicable and inhuman you are is to be contemptuous of the pain you cause to others.
We are all potential victims and sources of supply in the mind of a narcissist, they do not see us as kind, genuine or loving people who they can spend a happy and comfortable life sharing or as someone that they can learn from in a career situation or even as a friend but as someone they can manipulate and as a means to an end until you are of no further use .
They smile, speak lovingly , act innocent and caring while making deliberate attempts to deceive and control us and unfortunately all to often get away with it. Normal people build friendships based on mutual respect that last a lifetime, a narcissist never has friends, they have sources of supply that they build relationships with in the guise of friendship.. Controlling, abusive ,manipulating and lying people don't question themselves, they dont ask themselves if they are the problem. They always say the problem is someone else. The enablers of Narcissistic cheaters justify their behaviour as unfortunate, unplanned, unforseen, never hold them responsible, and “ it just happens”. There are no innocent bystanders , onlookers are complicit.

Lisa Douglas

1/24/2018 12:42:02 pm

I know this website has become very popular on the net because i have seen it recommended on a lot of the other websites in a lot of other countries about narcissism as worth reading. Not just to expose and warn everyone about them, which i guess was the original intention but because of the advice given about narcissism in general. I can understand what everyone says and it has been of help but there is one thing i cant get a real answer for. Do they know and can they see the horror and damage they cause to those around them, not only to adults but more to children especially their own children or to the children of whoever they are with?. If they do know, why do they do it?.Its obviously deliberately done. Its a horrible thing to do and is nothing more than child abuse so why arent they charged with it and go to jail?. They leave these children with such terrible emotional problems that affect them their entire lives . Not only that, they see the damage it causes to their other parent , All this has an affect on them and i think it is missed by to many because they are more aware of what has happened to the adult in a situation like this and the children are overlooked. Maybe its time the after affects of what people like this do is looked at in a broader picture, not just the adult victims but the children as well. I have seen the aftermath of a situation like this and once the mother realised that the children had been just as much used and abused as she had it sent her on a even more destructive course as she blamed herself. So the next question is,, do they really not see or know just how much damage they have done or do they simply not care as long as they get what they want?. . Also this would be the same for anyone they use and abuse, a friend, other family members, someone that works with them, when the target is married with children, most of these people would have children who see what their parent has gone through or have been manipulated and brain washed if they have regular contact with the narcissist and it would affect them in some way. Do they not think about that?, Are they so sick and evil that they dont care?. They cause so much heartache, pain and destruction that goes on for years . What an adult victim has to deal with is bad enough but children? Why?. Try explaining to a child why their parent is sick,depressed, suicidal , why the have to wear second hand clothes, why they cant have the present they want for their birthday, try explaining that someone they loved and trusted has abandoned them , left them in poverty, ignores them, has a new family, its not an easy thing for an adult to understand let alone a child.

Jesse Franklin

1/24/2018 09:13:43 pm

Do they know what they are doing and do they care that their actions are going to hurt others?. They certainly do!!! Their actions are not random or accidental, they are cold , calculated and well thought out.
Without going into what they have done before or since, which there is a lot they both have to answer for, this one incident tells it all. He formed a friendship with Dianne, got to know all about her and more importantly all about her grandsons, two boys less than a year apart in age who had been emotionally, physically and sexually abused by their mothers partner and other family members, their father, Diannes son had never had any contact with them, their mothers choice not his, the youngest boy was not his son as their mother stated, he was her currant partners child, later disproved by a DNA test, Dianne had no contact with them until the oldest one was 2 and diagnosed with a brain tumor, thats when she became involved in their lives and always treated both of them as her grandsons, when they were removed from their mother for abuse at the ages of 4 and 3 went into foster care and Dianne spent as much time with them as she could, two years later she was asked by the child welfare if she would take them ,she did so without any hesitation. Even resigning from her job in Melbourne and moving back to the family home in Beenleigh. He used all the information he found out to groom both the boys to love and trust him and became the father figure they never had. His obvious devotion and love for the boys is what tipped the scales in his favour with Dianne who felt he was genuine and really did care about her and them. He used the child welfare, the special schools they went to, Dianne ,her family and friends to con his way into getting a temporary visa and bypassed the normal requirements. He them married Dianne and it became a permanent residents visa and that gave him access to everything she had. Not long after he threw both the boys back into the government system stating they were too difficult to handle, began his affair with Liz Mazza and left Dianne stating he was confused and didn't know what he wanted and needed time on his own, all the while stripping her of everything he wanted . He manipulated her and emotionally abused her until she was a total wreck both emotionally and financially. That's just the basics of it ,there is a lot more. Read the site or go and ask people. So did he know what he was doing??. You decide. Did he know what the impact would be on those boys? Or Dianne?, of course he did, did he care?. Not one bit.
So why do people like him use children?, it's easy…children respond to anyone who shows interest and caring about them, they are easy to manipulate and use as leverage . What she , that other woman has done is not much better , but that's another story.
Now most of this is in the website, the rest i found out by asking those who knew them both, family, friends, people they worked with, i even contacted the dept child safety to confirm a few things and more importantly from Dianne and her therapist. Then there are the email conversations i had with Kings for several months and he even fooled me into believing his lies.
Kings can tell whatever story and lies he wants to and so can Liz, but they both know the truth as do i and a lot of others. I know Dianne, have since i was a teenager, She would go out of her way to help others, myself included, i have seen first hand what they both did to her and the boys. So to answer your question,, Yes they know what they are doing and No, they don't care. If i sound angry its because i am. They both got away with this and are both still manipulating children and using them like pieces on a chess board to get what they want and once again neither of them care what damage they are doing. And your right, you can’t explain this to a child, they simply cannot comprehend how someone can love them and do this. They just feel the pain and rejection and it never goes away.

Alex Jackson

1/24/2018 11:01:19 pm

A narcissist knows exactly what they are doing, nothing is left to chance and they dont give a damn who gets hurt, including kids. Once they accomplish what they want your kicked to the curb, including kids, and they spin their made up stories to be the victim and the real victim, including kids are totally ignored as if they never existed while the narc gets on with their new life and new family, including kids and do it all over again. Sorry about your friend but she is not the first or will be the last to go through something like this. . Websites like this one and all the others are here for one reason only, to warn people and tell them the signs to look out for to hopefully stop others going through this sort of drama. With a narc what you have to remember is,, what you see is not what you get, ask questions, check out all their stories and don't believe a word they say, in the end it's worth the effort.. This also applies to the narc in the workplace, if your in their way they will trample all over you and your career and ability to support your family can go out the window which in turn affects your kids. Pathological liar, No conscience, no morals, no remorse, no guilt, never their fault, always the victim, greedy, selfish and entitled to anything they want and that includes manipulating kids ,their own or yours to get it . That's the way the narc lives.

Evelyn Frost

1/25/2018 12:50:25 am

Hell yes, they know what they are doing, male or female, married or single , they actively seek out their next source of supply. They study them, find their weaknesses , work out the best way to go about it and children are a prime target if the new source has them. You get the children on side and you get the prime target. Do they care about the destruction they know they will cause?,, by the way they go about it what do you think.? It's all about them, not you, not your children or even their own children. They lie, cheat, steal , physically and emotionally to get what they want. Then they walk away leaving totally confused and damaged children blaming themselves for not being good enough to be loved and cared for by them. Then if they moved in with the next source of supply who has children it makes the damage even worse because the abandoned child feels replaced by a child who is better than them and worth them giving their love and time to. If they are female narcissists then they will use the children to blackmail the father to get what they want. It's an insidious way to use children but narcissists do it without a second thought to the emotional damage to the child. It's all about them and proving they are better than anyone else, deserve what they want and are entitled to get it anyway possible. These children suffer just as much as the targeted parent does and your right, they are mostly forgotten as they are children and its assumed that they will forget it and get over it. Unfortunately most of them never do and carry the scars of the emotional abuse for life. Because that’s what it is, emotional abuse. So , yes, they know what they do and , no, they don’t care. . Both of the individuals this site is about are prime examples. The damage they do to an adult victim is horrendous but the damage they do to a child's feelings of self worth is a hundred times worse because a child cannot process the truth, can't see that it wasn't anything they did that caused it and so blame themselves, much as what he or they did with lives destroyed as in this case. But they will continue to lie to themselves and others, denying any wrongdoing because they simply don't care, it was a means to an end for them and that's all it was. Collateral damage is not something they think or care about.

Marian Lightfoote

1/25/2018 03:48:05 am

There are times when it is to late to make things right,.
There are times when we hurt someone more than we realise.
There are times when we see a smile fade right in front of our eyes.
There are times we are the reason for tears in someones eyes.
Never treat anyone the way YOU dont want to be treated.
Love and cherish those who care for you, especially a child.

This is good advice and normal people with normal feelings see ,understand and try hard to live this way.

There are times when we deliberately do wrong and dont feel we should make it right, they deserved it.
There are times when we hurt someone for no other reason that we can and it makes us feel powerful.
There are times when we see a smile of love and caring fade right before our eyes and we know we hit the right spot.
There are times we are the reason for tears in someones eyes and we know we have won and own this person.
Treat everyone with contempt so you always win and they always lose. Lie, cheat and use those stupid enough to believe in you.

This is the Narcissists version and how they feel. Children are easy targets and they use this to their advantage.

Lisa Douglas

1/25/2018 07:27:28 pm

Thank you to everyone who took the time to answer my questions, everyone virtually said the same thing regardless of knowing the people in this site or not and that actually confirmed the opinion i had come to. So many different people from different places who all say the same thing can't possibly all be wrong.

They do know what they are doing, they do it deliberately to gain something they want and need and they will use any means and any person to achieve it..
They don't care that it will cause pain and suffering to others, it's all about them and their needs, you are just a stepping stone to get it for them, this includes anyone even innocent children. They will lie, cheat, steal, manipulate , use and abuse anyone including children to obtain what they want, be it status, possessions, money, someones wife /husband / partner or position in a company, they see nothing wrong with doing anything necessary to gain what they want.

I found the following an sites called, “stopthenarcissistsnow “, “psychopathfree” they are self descriptive and informative

If you have had an intimate relationship with a Narcissist , you have literally danced with the Devil.
The person you fell in love with , admired and trusted, turned into a stranger right before your eyes , a hurtful, spiteful, greedy, selfish, uncaring llying stranger, .
You begin to realize that you never really knew this person and that the whole relationship was nothing more than smoke and mirrors , a ploy to extract whatever it was the Narcissist needed from you. You welcomed this deceptive , manipulating non human into your life and the lives of your family with love, trust and faith only to see yourself and them destroyed.
Be vigilant with those you encounter in life because your adversary, the Devil ,comes in many disguises and his only objective is to gain what you have and destroy your mind, body and soul.

Narcissistic infidelity differs from “ normal “ cheating, because a narcissist feels no shame or remorse for what they have done.
In fact, they convince themselves it's your fault, and actually lead the new partner to believe they're a victim of you. ~ Psychopathfree

If people choose to believe the lies of a Narcissist, then so be it. There is no one easier to fool than those desperate to believe. They don't know you, most have never met you, they only know the narcissist. You don't need weak cowards in your life. Their loss, not yours.

Max Rosenburg

1/26/2018 06:57:30 pm

You won't find answers if you don't ask questions and most people are happy to give an opinion or a proven answer if asked.
Something i have noticed , in most articles they seem to be gender specific, most state “ him” or “he”, when talking about narcissists, some do state it's for convenience and you can submit “her” or “ she”. So don't ever think there are no female narcissists, there is i suspect just as many as males and are just as sick and destructive as their male counterparts.
Those in this site for example show as much.
So keep asking questions, it's the only way to learn and find the truth.

Lisa Douglas

1/27/2018 11:55:32 am

Thank you for the advice, i intend to keep asking questions until i get the answers i need. After reading everything on this site, it would seem that they both underestimated the strength of his ex wife. When it's all said and done she was not quite the pushover they thought she was. I get the feeling they thought she would crawl away and hide and she almost did, instead she fought back and exposed the truth about them. That took a strength and courage that neither of them, like all narcissists don’t have. As i have said, i don't know any of them and have only recently read this site. I found reference to it on another site about narcissism , which is something i am trying to get my head around, some things i have found out by asking questions and they are proven , is that they use the prospect of making money to those who are greedy, straight out sex and lies of love to those who need it and the manipulation of children because of their innocence and trust, the poor me i am a victim and have been used act to gain support and sympathy from caring people. So yes, they really do study you to find your weakness and use it against you. . I have attached the following article from another site in support of everyone who has suffered at the hands of Kingsley Wright and Elizabeth Mazza in the hope that it will give them confidence to realise that eventually them and those like them will pay the price for everything they have done. There is one other thing i have discovered, that karma, fate, universal justice , whatever you want to call it, will always catch up with you regardless of who you are or how good you think you are, because there will always be someone who is bigger and better than you as far as being a manipulating, abusing bastard or bitch goes or who is stronger than you give them credit for and will fight back by exposing the truth.

Narcissists constantly rewrite history, especially after breakups. Instead of facing the shame of their cheating, lying and abuse and damaging the fake persona they have built about themselves , they invent a new reality where they are the victim of you, because you mistreated them and therefore you deserve any suffering caused by the whole ordeal. Frighteningly enough, they actually seem to believe this story the more they tell it. It sounds crazy but it's the way their brain works to avoid things like remorse, guilt, shame and accountability and it makes them the victim who gets all the sympathy and support…If it's any consolation to their victims, in reality, psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists always lose in the end . They lose jobs, relationships and the trust ,respect, loyalty and love of others. With each new victim they feel invincible. As the victim starts to catch on or is no further use to them, they move on to the next one that gives them the same rush of power. They lie to, cheat on, steal from, hurt and manipulate without a thought as to how the outcome will affect anyone except themselves. Their greatest strength is seeing others weaknesses. Their greatest weakness is not seeing others strength.
PsychopathFree

Alex Jackson

1/27/2018 10:49:36 pm

I agree with you on Karma. From what i have recently been told looks like Karma has begun its revenge. As far as myself and others are concerned it couldn't happen to two better recipients. Neither of them can complain because they were both given plenty of chances to at least repair some of the damage and neither of them could even admit that they did the wrong thing the wrong way let alone try to minimise the destruction. .
I understand that none if us, myself included are perfect or blameless and Karma will catch up with us as well , the difference is that our transgressions were not deliberate and i'm sure we at least tried to fix things once we realised just what we did. So on a prorata basis they deserve to be top of her list.

Karma comes after everyone eventually.
i don't care who you are,
You can't get away with screwing people over your whole life.
What goes around, comes around.
That's how it works.
Sooner or later, the universe will serve you the revenge you deserve.

Jessica Brody---- Valhalla Mind.

Matthew Reed

1/29/2018 08:19:36 pm

Hey All, Karma, poetic justice, same thing. I read this the other day and had a bit of a chuckle, it rings true with them. Then wondered which one of them is the Alpha Dog?, I have my opinion, what's yours?.

“ Its poetic justice when the Narcissistic Parasite gets ensnared by a greater Parasite. Among Narcissists there is a hierarchy of users.
Narcissists are often drawn to each other, all of them are parasites who believe that others are there to be used and exploited to give them whatever they want. At the same time they seem to be highly gullible to other stronger Narcissists. There is always a higher Narcissist that can bring the lower Narcissist to his or her knees. The same can be said for a romantic relationship between two Narcissists, there is always an Alpha one who calls the shots and a subservient one who obeys blindly. As long as the status quo doesn't get disrupted, they can stay together for years. When push comes to shove, if one is exposed they will stand united to cover for each other, especially against family and they tend to stick to working together for the same reason. Two lots of lies ,denials and cover ups are harder to fight against than one. “

V Lonigan

1/29/2018 04:49:00 pm

Written by my 14 year old niece.
She wrote this in support of an 8 years old girl who attempted suicide and a 14 year old girl who committed suicide because they were being bullied and emotionally abused..
Words of wisdom from a child that we as adults should take notice of.

“ We all need to help each other. That means come together and stop this. Even if you have done the wrong thing, you have to face the truth. You can't keep pretending you or they did nothing wrong. You have to stop watching this happening and doing nothing. You cant let manipulating bullies and liars hurt those around you and just walk away. Children and teenagers who treat people like this grow up to be adult bullies and liars and hurt even more people. And children and teenagers who just watch and do nothing grow up to be adults who are cowards. So stand up to them and stand with the victim.”

There are so many people who know the truth about them, family, friends, ex partners, those they have worked with, yet for reasons known only to themselves they have said nothing or if they have, they have not been believed and so they continue to do this and continue to get away with it. . I worked with one of them several years ago , i spoke up and was told i was jealous of this person and i was the liar and troublemaker. I was the one who was forced to leave. Then several months later when the problems and mistakes still continued, the department was in a mess with so many other staff members resigning, clients cancelling contracts , it was realised just who the problem really was and this person resigned before they were formally asked to leave, insisting they had done nothing wrong and had been victimised.. I fully agree with everyone else… they know exactly what they are doing and don't care who gets hurt , it's all about them. They never accept any responsibility for the damage they cause , its always someone else's fault and they play the victim to perfection. At their age with the so called qualifications and experience they have they should be settled in a position and held it for years ,yet they never last longer than a few months at any reputable company. The same applies to their relationships, they change partners just as often. Decent people do wonder why?. No one can be the blameless victim as much as they claim to be.

Alex Jackson

1/30/2018 01:32:48 pm

I have a source that is close enough to them to see and hear what goes on , this person is disgusted by some of the things they have seen and heard but has learnt to play the game to try and minimise the damage to others. There are certain things i have been told that i can't publicly pass on for several reasons, it could expose this person and no actual proof so it's just hearsay but have privately informed those who should know.
One piece of information i can pass on again as i have done so previously , just to jog your memory and perhaps give an indication of who is the top dog.

A couple of years ago he indicated in a roundabout kind of way, he wanted to go and see his ex wife and tell her he was sorry, not for what they did but for how they did it , he insists that it wasn't planned? They met and fell in love? . But they could and should have acted differently to minimise the damage they caused emotionally and financially?. And to offer to give her what financial help he could to make things a bit easier for her and return or replace some of the things that were hers that he took with him. The person he spoke to about this got the impression he was feeling them out as to how this would be seen to others. Needless to say, it never happened. So, was it just talk to try and make himself look good? Or was he given an ultimatum as to the consequences by someone if he did?. Or was he trying to say that he made one hell of a mistake and regretted it. The way he was talking left this person wondering just what was he indicating. Guess we will never know the truth, but everyone who has heard this story has their own interpretation.

Jesse Franklin

1/30/2018 07:15:55 pm

I have heard something similar and not just from you Alex, I even have something similar in an email from him. People tell me they get disgusted when they are asked about a particular incident and they change their stories, to the point where you know they are lying. Its at the point where just about everyone who knows them knows they lie and has caught them out in lies. Its not just what they say, its their body language as well, so much has been discussed about them and Narcissists in general , everyone knows the signs to watch for. . So that's a good thing in one way. Basically its all a load of BS and not worth worrying about. He had me fooled at one stage, wont happen again and others feel the same way. But keeping this in the open is a good thing as well, just to point out what really goes on, not their made up stories. Top Dog?? My opinion is not printable.

Marian Lightfoote

1/31/2018 11:52:01 am

Your right, it is a load of BS as you put it and not worth worrying about. Noone is ever going to get the truth from them about anything , past, present or future, it would shatter the fantasy they live in and destroy the illusion they have about themselves and portray to the world. I am sure there are others out there who like yourself, Dianne and Alex have damaging information about one or both of them, who for self protection or legal reasons can't make it public, well, not yet anyway. Keep what you know as your ace in the hole, as several others who have contacted me to enquire about certain aspects of Narcissism are doing. As i have read some of the emails and text messages he sent to both you and Dianne about how devastated he feels for what he did, all the declarations of love, trust me , wait for me, that he will come back and how she will understand why he had to do it etc etc etc. Typical Narcissistic smoke and mirrors , deception and lies. You have exposed the truth about them both and it's up to those around them now and those they encounter in the future to believe it or not , there will always be those who cant or wont see the truth and those who will pick it up straight away, you can't do anymore than that. The last list of statistics you sent me about the site shows it is still being read by hundreds every month and as someone pointed out, it is referred to on several official sites about narcissism. Its doing what it was intended to do and will continue to do so for as long as its running on the web. Its up to those who read it to make their own decisions. It's been a difficult, time consuming and emotional task both you and Dianne undertook and it has paid off in so many ways. So take a back seat now ,get on with your life as Dianne has done, and let it continue to do its work. I will look forward to reading the occasional comment and email posted as i am sure many others will. It's a new year my friend and one full of promise and surprises, i know you have every right to be angry about what has happened but don't let your bitterness and anger influence you. A lot of others know the truth, thanks to you . Does it really matter who is the Alpha Dog?. and i am sure most have worked it out by now. Talk to you soon.

Alex Jackson

2/2/2018 12:47:32 am

I have emailed the following and more to Jesse but will post just this bit of it to let others who read the site see what's up.
.” Mate, you have done a great job setting this up, you and a few others stuck by Di and would not let her walk away and hide. You forced her to see the truth and gave her the confidence to fight back. I know from getting to know you that you felt about as useless as tits on a bull when all this kicked off and how pissed off you were and still are that you let him play you as well. And getting to know Di has been good as well. She is a smart, intelligent , caring lady who just picked the wrong person .
Marian is right, you have done everything right and exposed him and through him, her as well, for what they really are, that in itself has been of use to a lot more people than you realise. Even i was a bit stunned by how many have contacted me with complaints about them, some i knew and never realised that they knew either of them or just how badly they have been treated by one or both of them. The engineering, training and mechanical fraternity is pretty close knit and i doubt there is anyone concerned in the industry who has not read the site and believe me some were shocked but admitted they were not surprised as they always had a bit of a hinky feeling about them. Guys don't like talking about how they were played but once this came out a lot have spoken to me and i know to you about certain things as well as quite a few ladies have, about the treatment they got both personally and at work by either of them. I won't go into details as you already know. So take notice of Marian who is a smart and cluey lady as far as narcissists go, i will be dropping her an email after i send this to you. As long as the site is on the net anyone looking for info on either of them will find it and word of mouth will keep spreading. It's as she said, people have to draw their own conclusions from the info provided. So head down, arse up, have a beer , do your own thing and put this on the back burner for now. After speaking to Di she agrees with this because she knows how hard you work and just how much time and effort you put into this for her . Anything new i find out that is of interest i will pass on . Pretty damn sure just about everyone now knows it's all smoke and mirrors with them now. “

Liz Carmichael

2/2/2018 02:42:22 am

I wholeheartedly agree with everything said on here, been there done that. Narcissists do exist, more than you know and they are bloody good at covering their tracks.
The only problem is that there are those who have never experienced a true narcissist. Much like the victim in this narrative, a highly intelligent lady, married to a great guy for over half her life, has know the meaning of true love and commitment, compassionate, caring, honest and assumes most people are the same., I am sure she has had her share of problems and heartache but has sorted them out either with her husbands support and later on her own without hurting or using anyone else.
I agree we need to focus on ourselves, if we are safe, happy and content , then those we care about or who care about us are as well.,
BUT!!! We , the survivors of narcissistic abuse also need to teach others what they are and what they do so that they know what and who to look out for so that they too do not have to say, “ i am a survivor.”

This site and the many others like it are here for that reason, not for revenge by a deranged ex partner or co-worker as the narcissist insists it is and that they are the one who is being victimised ,abused and wrongly accused, but to protect and warn those the narcissist comes in contact with that this person is not who or what you think they are..

For me it is better to grasp and accept the universe as it really is with all its flaws, mistakes, pain and heartbreak, than to persist in the delusion that it is perfect , flawless and forgiving. However satisfying and reassuring that illusion is to us, it's a false acceptance of life . As difficult as it may be at times ,when we can live with , learn from , share the lessons we learn to protect others, accept our mistakes and move on, knowing we have done the right thing, that is our perfect universe.

Julie Marsden

2/4/2018 12:11:21 pm

If you want to know about Narcissists then a good place to start is this website.
Narcissistic and Emotional Abuse, Shattering the Illusion is now available on Amazon.
Follow us on Twitter at NAEAinfo and Instagram @ Narcissistic & Emotional Abuse
Some of the honest and emotional articles on this site. I personally have found them informative and helpful and talking to others i have met on it who have been through the same experience has given me the courage to accept the truth.

Answers to the questions we get asked the most.

Yes, they know what they are doing.
Yes, they know they are hurting you.
Yes, they are doing it on purpose.
Yes, they can control it. They do when it's necessary to impress someone.
Yes, they do it to gain something or someone they want or need.
No, they dont love you, even if they say they do.
They do not feel love, compassion, empathy or remorse. Your relationship is not about love its about control, dominance, respect, greed, need and money.
No, you can't change them, they live in a fantasy world of being entitled to get whatever they want anyway they can.
Yes, there is something you can do, get as far away from them as fast as you can.

There are two things i judge people harshly on.
The inability for one to admit when they are wrong
And the lack of courage to say, “Im sorry”.
That tells me all i need to know about a person.
Because we are all wrong at some point in our lives.
But not all of us are sorry.

Realizing they were never "there" or "them" in the first place helps a lot. They are just empty shells, devoid of any real personality, only what they pretend to be, to get what they want. Once I understood that, and the truth that it never had anything to do with me, it made it easier to put things in perspective.They will never be there for anyone else either. Oh sure, they'll act super attentive in the beginning to reel you in, but when real life hits, and the fairy-tale beginning is over, they will be cruel and neglectful again, and again. They cannot handle reality, They get bored easily. Boredom is what keeps hitting them over and over again. They want others to entertain them, and be all over them all the time, to boost their egos and tell them how wonderful they are , which is as exhausting as having a baby, and they aren't even content with your attention, cause it is never enough, or the right type of attention. Once they have what they wanted or needed from you, you cease to be of any interest and long before they do their disappearing act they have been scouting out your replacement. So don't take it personally, it never was personal , there never was any emotional attachment on their part, it was all an act, you were just a necessary object to use to get what they needed. They are bottomless pits of greed, selfishness, and wants who manipulated everything good in you to obtain what they wanted, so, no, it's not personal or emotional, its all an act of calculating lies and deception..
~ Chris Pullin

Mick Lucas

2/4/2018 05:19:38 pm

A very similar situation happened to me. Throughout our marriage she had several affairs, we had two beautiful children, to this day the thought that they might be the product of her affairs and not my biological children haunts me , but they will always be my children and i will always be their dad, i love them as such. I have never had the courage or could be so cruel as to put them through a DNA test and destroy their lives. So i can sympathise with not only the used and abused lady in this site but also the fathers of and the children of the that woman he is with.
It is a relationship that will not last unless they both accept that each will be unfaithful and stay together for reasons other than love and commitment. Because of the children it took me a long time to leave and both have told me they understand why and don't blame me. I have never told them the reasons why in detail but i feel they know and they both have a distant and strained relationship with their mother.
A narcissist is not gender specific to males, the female version is just the same.

Written by Faye Armitage
Exposing narcissistic abuse.
I know a man who was literally celebrating his wedding anniversary with total presence, yet able to cheat on his wife a mere few weeks later. He wasn't going through the motions, he was really enjoying himself on his anniversary trip.
He had the most beautiful pictures taken and the couple was looking so happy. But nothing is ever enough for a narcissist, so just a couple if weeks later he starts an affair with a bistro worker he just met.
It's obvious that no woman is going to be safe with a man like this. He could meet another bistro worker during a lull in that relationship too. It's just a matter of time before he starts looking for excitement elsewhere.
The man has no impulse control and is just after momentary pleasures. No woman will be able to have a loving, safe and secure relationship with him.
It hurts the most when the person who made you feel so special yesterday, makes you feel so unwanted today.

Jenny McConnell

2/5/2018 09:09:40 pm

After coming out of a relationship with a narcissist and getting my life back on track, there is one thing that i simply cannot understand.
I don't understand how they are okay with themselves knowing that they deliberately emotionally destroyed another person. How can they do this?.
This was recommended for me to read. I hope it gives others a clearer understanding

"3 Signs A Person May Be A Narcissist/ Sociopath
1. He or she emotionally harms others, including his/her children repeatedly, often seeming to do so on purpose. (Sometimes by infantilizing them, or using them for personal entertainment or gain)
2. After hurting another person, the narcissistic sociopathic person acts like it never happened and expects or requires the hurt one to pretend the same.
3. He or She lies or twists the truth or plays the victim in an attempt to deny or deflect responsibility. The narcissist/sociopathic person freely manipulates people to get their way."
“ There is one main feature that sets narcissists/sociopaths apart from the rest of us. That one thing can be expressed in one word: conscience. Simply put, a narcissist/sociopath feels no guilt. Because of this, he or she’s freed up to do virtually anything without having to pay any internal price for it.
A narcissistic sociopath can say or do anything he or she wants and not feel bad the next day, or ever. (It was said "in jest," it's no big deal, it wasn't meant literally)
Along with a lack of guilt comes a profound lack of empathy. For the narcissist/sociopath, other people’s feelings are meaningless because he or she has no ability to feel them. In fact, narcissists/sociopaths don’t actually feel anything the way the rest of us do. Their emotions operate under a very different system, which usually revolves around controlling others.
If the narcissist/ sociopath succeeds in controlling you, he or she may actually feel some warmth for you. The flip side of that coin is that if he or she fails at controlling you, they will despise you. He or she uses underhanded means to get their way, and if that doesn’t work, they’ll bully. If that fails, he or she will retaliate.
Having no conscience frees up the narcissist/sociopath to use any underhanded means to get their way. They can be verbally ruthless. They will portray things falsely. They will twist others’ words to their own purposes. They will blame others when things go awry. It’s not necessary to own his or her mistakes because it’s much easier to blame someone else."

~ Dr. Jonice Webb

Alex Jackson

2/6/2018 01:01:15 pm

The comments posted recently has shown just how big a problem narcissists are in our lives and society in general who range from mild to full blown NPD. I dont think its a recent development, they have always been among us but until the event of social media and the internet they have virtually gotten away with the destruction they cause because the only recourse the victims had was to suffer alone in silence or be branded a vindictive neurotic person , the narcissist is an expert at playing the victim and was the one who was given support and sympathy .. With so many, both male and female coming out with virtually the same stories and sharing them on social media sites, such as this one and the hundreds of others available ,it has been officially recognised by psychiatrists as being a very real mental condition that causes destruction to those around them in every situation ranging from an intimate relationship to the workplace environment and the name ,Narcissism, officially given to it and the victims recognised as genuinely requiring therapy and support to help them get through the trauma and destruction they have been subjected to. People from all walks of life and every country in the world have been vindicated in their stories of abuse and manipulation and are recognised as being the victim and the narcissist as the manipulating, abusive, pathological liars that they are. They cant hide their true selves any longer, as more and more people are learning to recognise the signs of the narcissistic mentality. It's a wake up call for all of us, be vigilant, look behind the mask, question the excuses and stories they tell, and don't ever dismiss the complaints and horror stories told by others as being those of a disgruntled , jealous or vindictive person. Before you judge, find the truth.

A person's character is shown by their actions through life, not where they sit on Sunday.

Nathan Parkinson

2/6/2018 02:40:04 pm

To the Enablers who go into Overdrive to Protect the Narcissistic Abuser and Bully.
PLEASE STOP!!!!!
To the people who’ve spent months or years repeatedly glossing over, excusing or rationalizing away the most toxic, abusive, destructive, offensive, vulgar, cruel, immoral behavior of the narcissist , You have and still are contributing to the pain and destruction they cause, you are morally responsible for allowing their conduct to continue.
That there are people apparently more concerned about the feelings of the narcissistic abuser than about the very safety of those that have been or are being abused is abhorrent to me and should be to you.
.” I refuse to be one of those people and so should you."
Take off those rose tinted glasses and look at this person in the cold light of day, take a good hard look at their past, at the excuses they used to validate their behaviour, at their present conduct, at the stories they regaled you with of their accomplishments and achievements, at how often they played the victim, if your honest with yourself you will recognise the patterns and see the truth. This person is a Narcissist, this person has been using you to back up their abuse, this person cares no more about you than they do their victims, they will keep you in their circle of admirers as long as you continue to be on their side but the moment you start to question them , you become the enemy and will be discredited, vilified and discarded becoming another one of their victims.

Marian Lightfoote

2/7/2018 12:40:05 pm

Some people have been fortunate enough to never have experienced dealing with a full blown narcissist, but in saying that most will have had contact with a person or several people who have midrange narcissist tenancies and never even realised it. They hide in the open, they tell the most fantastic and most times believable lies, they have excuses for everything, everything that goes wrong is always someone else's fault, they are never the cause or to blame, they portray themselves as the victim in every scenario, they elicit sympathy with their tales of woe and betrayal and the list goes on and on. If you have ever known or know someone like this then you have or are dealing with a narcissist. Accept the fact that this is real life, that this did and does happen, that narcissistic abuse is real, that it destroys lives and in some cases takes the life of the victims and is not the made up stories of hundreds if not thousands of mentally deranged individuals world wide. Take the time to look for and find the truth!!!
I have added a few things from some of the many websites available and a link to a very interesting article.
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Some people think that asking for help is a sign of weakness. It's not. It's a sign of strength to recognise you have a problem, seek the appropriate help and deal with it. There are many therapists and psychologists who now deal exclusively with victims of narcissistic abuse as it has been recognised as a genuine and increasing trauma. Even the strongest of people can be brought to their knees by the twisted mind games of a narcissistic personality.
Just remember to give yourself time and plenty of it. There are many kind and understanding people on this site, many who have been through exactly the same thing, who will help you on the road ahead.
Anne. “narcissisticandemotionalabuse.com”
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Narcissists have a great memory when it comes to casting up everything they have done for you, but a touch of selective amnesia when it comes to what you have done for them.
.To a narcissist if they repeat a lie often enough then it becomes the truth.
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Four things a Narcissist will never say.
To those i have wronged, i ask forgiveness.
To those i have helped , i wish i could have done more.
To those i neglected to help, i ask for understanding.
To those who helped me, i am grateful.
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HOW ONE SURVIVOR OF NARCISSIST ABUSE DESCRIBED IT.
DARKNESS.
The definition of darkness is the absence of light.
You cannot see darkness.
Darkness cannot exist at the same time as light.
Darkness cannot exist without light.
Darkness cannot be explained.
Darkness only comes when everything else has gone.
Darkness is nothing------ Then darkness is everything.
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/understanding-narcissism/201801/why-is-it-so-hard-leave-the-narcissist-in-your-life

Karen Matthews

2/8/2018 04:37:27 pm

A bit more information to toss into the mix, i hope it helps and rings a few alarm bells.

The true character of a person can easily be determined by how they not only begin a new relationship but how they end one. Is this new interest married or in a committed relationship, are they cheating on their partner with you, are they lying to those around them and keeping their relationship with you hidden. When their relationship with you gets serious how do they end the relationship with their partner, are they honest, do they reveal your involvement, do they make the separation easy and amicable, do they ensure their partner does not suffer financial hardship, do they show compassion, remorse and guilt or do they make themselves the victim to gain sympathy from you and your family and friends, ignore their partner, lie to them, leave them not only emotionally devastated and confused but financially struggling.
If any of this sounds familiar then the chances are they have done this before and will do it again,, you like their former partner/ husband/ wife are only temporary until someone better comes along. There is a very good chance that this person is a narcissist as this is typical behaviour for them.
The same can be said for the person who enters into a relationship knowing that person is married or with a partner and who is still living domestically with them. They know this can only end one of two ways, with them deciding to stay with their spouse or partner and you being discarded as just a fling leaving you hurt which you deserve, or by leaving their partner or spouse and causing pain and suffering to them they didn't deserve. . You know this is going to happen and are greedy and selfish enough not to care as long as you win. One thing you seem to forget….. If they can treat a loving spouse or partner like this, then the chances are they will eventually do the same to you. Cheaters will continue to cheat. So in the end, you lose!!!
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Narcissists are repeat offenders: The Collapse of Fantasyland is inevitable
"Although there are narcissists who are “players” and not looking for a serious, long-term relationship, many with narcissistic disorders do want to settle down and get married (to pretend normalcy). Unfortunately, because they lack whole object relations, they tend to be unrealistic about what they expect in a mate.
They perceive two categories: perfect and flawed.
Perfect = You are pleasing me right now. You are providing me with what i want.
Flawed = You are doing something that I do not like right now. That which you were providing for me has has been depleted.
The narcissist doesn't want your love, they don't know what love is.
They want your admiration and obedience as the current player in their fake make believe world to pretend that they are normal to those around them. When you are replaced and you will be eventually, it will be your fault, they will play the “ poor me” “ i tried so hard” sympathy card to your replacement and the world in general..
To a narcissist lying takes no energy at all as it is done so easily when you have no conscience.
Lying is instant gratification of controlling those around them and making and controlling their own reality.
As a result, instead of finding the perfect relationship that they crave, narcissists end up repeating what I call the Narcissist Relationship Abuse Pattern"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/…/why-do-narcissists-abuse-…

Lauren Morrison

2/8/2018 11:12:10 pm

OMG!!! I know a few people who should read this. It backs up everything that is being said and posted on here. It might shake a bit of sense into them.
Common Personality Traits of a Cheater
What causes a man or woman to cheat on the person they claim to love? Are they just a selfish, self-absorbed, immoral person? Or, is there "dysfunction" lurking beneath their deceptive ways?
Most research suggests that there is a common set of personality traits that set cheaters apart from their non-philandering counter-parts. The sooner you can recognize these traits, the closer you will be to protecting yourself from their selfish ways.
NARCISSISM. Most often cheaters are narcissists, or at the very least they share many similar qualities with them. For example, they are selfish, greedy and often think only of themselves. A narcissist typically feels a sense of entitlement and will do whatever necessary to feed the "narcissistic supply." Wikipedia defines “narcissistic supply” as “a concept in some psychoanalytic theories, which describes a type of admiration, interpersonal support or sustenance drawn by an individual from his or her environment (especially from careers, codependents and others). The term is typically used in a negative sense, describing a pathological or excessive need for attention or admiration that does not take into account the feelings, opinions or preferences of other people.”
In short, narcissists are self-absorbed, out for number one and lack empathy, which makes it possible for them to have affairs without feeling guilty
DECEPTION. A cheater can look you directly in the eyes and tell a lie without even blinking. They have been known to tell tall tales that are so outrageous that you can’t help but believe them. We tend to believe them because they have perfected the lie, which makes it sound utterly convincing. Their lives are so full of deception that the line between truth and fiction is blurred. Not all liars are cheaters, but you can’t be a cheater and not be a liar, the two go hand in hand.
THRILL SEEKING. Cheaters are sometimes risk takers in other areas of their lives as well. It all boils down to that “rush” they feel when there is something important at stake. It's often the lies and fear of getting caught that fuels their fire. They just can't seem to resist the thrill of the chase and when the opportunity for reciprocation arrives, they can’t seem to resist that either. It’s a win-win with no regard for the people in their lives.
IMMORALITY. If your partner has confessed to cheating in past relationships, you need to pay close attention. Often, this indicates the extent of their moral code. They have pretty much confirmed that they have no problem crossing the line and will likely do it again. Please don't buy into the excuses they will give for their previous mistakes. It doesn't matter if "she was a bitch" or if "it was already over." Let's call a spade a spade. It's cheating and nothing can excuse that. Unhappy or not, partners deserve a better ending to their relationship than infidelity. So is "once a cheater, always a cheater" true? The answer is, unfortunately, yes!
~ PairedLife

Alex Jackson

2/9/2018 12:23:40 pm

”” Not all liars are cheaters but you can't be a cheater without being a liar, the two go hand in hand.””” That one sentence sums up it up as far as what Kings and Maz are, it proves without any doubt that they both LIE!!! Both serial cheaters, both liars. And neither of them can deny it.
So now ask yourself, if they can cheat on and lie to someone they profess to love and who loved them, then its stands to reason that they have lied to those around them to cover up the true facts about how and what happened, and how THEY were being victimized and totally blameless, THEN WHAT ELSE HAVE THEY LIED ABOUT. Unless you are mentally challenged you have to give at least a credible thought to all the stories and incidents attributed to them where others have told about being used ,abused and manipulated could possibly be true and their version of the events are pure fabrications , lies in other words to paint themselves as the innocent victim and to elicit sympathy and support from others. Shoots holes in the excuses and stories they have been using for years in not only their personal lives but in their employment history. . So is the information on this website submitted by his ex wife in the first instant and others of how and what they have done, true or not?. Myself and many others had made the determination of it being true BEFORE the article on cheaters and lies was posted, which only served to reinforce our decision.. As others have stated, you might get away with a lie for awhile but the truth will always come out!!! And when caught out in one lie it puts everything else you have said in doubt. So get out the violins and be prepared for the tears , the excuses ,the lies to cover up lies and the guilt trips of “ if you cared about me, you would believe me”. There are those watching to see what happens and who will pass it on

Aiden Meyers

2/9/2018 04:38:43 pm

Read this on the news this morning. Shows just what the majority think of cheaters and liars and that includes the women who cheat as well.
.
Message to the other woman.
Kate Langbroek has spoken out following news of a certain politicans extramarital affair and subsequent child with a former staffer.
Speaking on Hughesy and Kate on 2DayFM, the 52-year-old radio personality described the situation as "horrible, hideous, and terrible" before taking aim at women who sleep with married men.
"It happens a lot, but here's the thing and maybe I say this because I am a woman," she said.
"Don't get me wrong, I totally hold this guy to account for his own actions. But I'm not a man, so all I can speak for is on behalf of myself as a woman and to other women: Stop f*ing married men. Just don't do it. Stop doing it."
Kate, a mother-of-four, went on to deliver a strong message to those women considering getting involved with a married man.
"You might think that you're getting something out of it, but you're not -- yes, she's getting a baby -- but you're getting so much pain and misery and bad juju."
She also said that not knowing someone's wife was "not an excuse.
"The fact is you know of their existence," Kate said.
"If you want to sleep with him, then he's got a choice to split up with his family and split up with his wife, get a divorce and then he can come to you unencumbered, that's fine, people fall in love all the time and relationships are complicated."
"But when you sleep with a married man, you're a bad person. You can put whatever spin on it you want, but you're a rotten person. So is the rotten man you've slept with, but I am not talking about the men."
The controversial comments have received praise on social media, with many describing the tirade as "well said."
"Well said Kate!! Women need to stop hurting other woman and Remember if he did it with you he'll do it to You!!!" one commenter on Facebook, while another added: "I have never written on one of these pages/forums before but felt compelled to do so after seeing an article about Kate's comments... SPOT ON, thanks for speaking up!"
The Hughesy and Kate Facebook page was sure to stress, "Kate Langbroek opinion is that on women and not men.
The politicans wife of 24 years has come out and said that her and the family are shocked and devastated by the revelations.

P Fielding

2/9/2018 06:45:48 pm

So, your a woman reading this site, you just found out that your husband/partner has been cheating on you and lying to you about it, how do you feel? What is your reaction?. Or your a guy reading this and found out your wife/ partner has been cheating on you and lying about it. How do you feel? What is your reaction?.
Exactly!!!!! And i won't go into what it would be as it would not be printable and probably criminal.
So my next question, Why are you reluctant to believe they did this? Why are so many of you still giving them support and sympathy? Why are you still believing their stories “ lies”, that it was all caused by a family members, someone who was a friend, cruel abusive partners , co-workers or company owners who have been blamed for everything that has gone wrong in their lives? You know the truth, it's staring right at you, they have both done this on more than one occasion ,to more than one person. So, please, stop believing the lies and stories they tell with so much conviction complete with tears, of being the poor innocent, blameless victim. Give your sympathy and support to those who really need it, the real victims!!!! Stop helping them in any way, walk away, because you know that if anything goes wrong in whatever relationship you have with them, friend, family or business , then it will be YOU who gets the blame .
They are both serial cheaters and liars, that much has been proved. Both have used, abused and manipulated others to get what they want without any remorse or guilt in every situation they have found themselves in, with family, friends, partners, jobs. If they wanted it then they took it by any means they could regardless of who got trampled under foot. And as soon as they saw they saw the signs of being found out ,they cried the innocent victim and ran like the narcissistic cowards they are, blaming everyone else. It was only a matter of time that certain things that have not been told came to light and the truth finally emerged. When one lie is exposed everything they have ever done or said they did , every excuse ever given for anything, is put in the spotlight and wondered as to how much truth ,if any at all, is in it. I know someone who was involved with one of them, i wont say if it was in an intimate or in a professional way, its not my place to reveal the details but i have seen first hand the damage caused by their manipulation and lies. I have followed this site and read all the stories, the documents and emails and there is just to much of the same being said by different people to be made up, i hope that others can finally see this as well. Someone said, the truth is out there if you take the time to look for it and from what i see a lot have looked and found it.. Now it’s your turn...

Grant Turner

2/9/2018 11:13:28 pm

It's been interesting and enlightening to read all this . It sure has brought things out in the open that have previously been kept hidden with lies from them but also by those who were too embarrassed and ashamed to admit they were conned and spill the beans . Which from what i understand is exactly what narcissists count on.
Any intimate relationship with a partner or a marriage is based on love, commitment, truth , understanding and trust, its a long term commitment for better or worse, in sickness and health, in good times and bad. You work together and support each other to sort out problems. Only a coward runs away to someone else leaving their spouse or partner to sort things out. They might say the words and make the promises but they never intend to honour them, they have no emotional feelings at all, its all show to appear genuine and loving. To them it seems to be based on lies, cheating, greed and a way of getting what they want regardless of who they hurt.
Not the sort of individuals you want in your life as a friend , family member or business associate. Especially if your married ,in a relationship, or have adult kids, you would not be able to trust them to respect your boundaries and be on watch all the time to see if either of them were targeting or trying to get close to you ,your other half or your kids. You know what they have done previously and that they will do it again so your going to be on guard all the time to make sure they dont try it on with not only you or your partner but with anyone else close to you that you care about. They seem to start out with the sympathy play and it goes from there.
Makes for a very anxious and defensive friendship or business associate. Not worth the drama in the long run..,

Max Rosenburg

2/10/2018 11:57:12 am

Well of course a cheater is a liar, it's the only way they can get away with it. They lie to their partner or spouse, to their friends, to the person they are cheating with, to their family and the other person's family, to those they work with. And the one they are cheating with is a liar, by covering up for them , by lying to those around them, by condoning the cheaters actions, don't forget that. A person who uses lies to cheat will use lies in everything they do, don't forget that either. To make themselves look like they had no choice but to cheat, they lie to everyone about how abusive their partner was, how badly they were treated , how the person they cheated with gave them the love and comfort their partner never did. The person they cheated with lies to back them up without in most cases ever meeting or knowing the partner. Then they get their enablers on board who give them sympathy and support , again these enablers have never met or know the partner and believe the lies , they defend the cheater and the co-cheater and denigrate the partner all based on the lies they are told. When a person lies they don't stop at one, they tell more lies to cover up the original lie and if they lie to cheat then the odds are they have lied about everything else in their lives. A liar is a liar and will lie to cover up what they do, to make themselves out to be better than they are, to throw blame on others, to get sympathy and support and to get what they want from you . Usually the co-cheater is the next unsuspecting victim but in this case knowing what i know about both of them, they are both cheaters and pathological liars. And that is a truth you can't deny. If you cant see the truth then you really are being controlled and used by, in this case , a pair of narcissists and pathological liars. So enjoy the ride with them because as soon as you are of no further use ,you to will be lied about, that's if you haven't already been lied about because the odds are, you have.

Marian Lightfoote

2/10/2018 03:21:19 pm

find it very strange and perplexing that society in general get outraged when someone like this politician is caught out in an extramarital affair, cheated on and lied to his wife and family, it's not as if we know them personally and it does not have any personal or first hand effect on us. But we accept it as true and go on the rampage to support his family and give our opinion of what a piece of scum he is.

But when it comes to pointing out that someone you know, is close to you, a family member, work with them , a friend etc etc, has done exactly the same thing, has cheated on their partner with extramarital affairs and lied to not only their partner but everyone around them, is using them to gain sympathy and support , we jump in to defend them , we unquestionably believe their version of the story without hearing the other side or even trying to get to the truth, join them in vilifying and destroying the character of the one cheated on and not see just how much we are contributing to condoning this behaviour and the destruction of the partner. How many times do we have to see this person we think we know doing this before we accept the fact that they are serial cheaters, liars, users, abusers and scammers , have emotionally and financially hurt and sabotaged the character of someone who is totally blameless in the drama and tell them that enough is enough, that we are not going to swallow their lies anymore. That the amount of times they have cried victim and blameless is out of all proportion with the reality of life. Unfortunately there are those who never will but who will be the first to jump on the bandwagon of supporters when it comes to condemning a person they don't know like this politician and these are the ones the narcissist , pathological liars , abusers , cheaters will throw to the wolves first when things go wrong and lie about them without any feelings of loyalty or compassion to cover themselves.
As human beings we are a weird collection of feelings and opinions as to what is right and wrong depending on who it involves. Cheating, lies, abuse , manipulation is wrong and unacceptable regardless of who does it.

Laura Marshall

2/12/2018 08:59:37 pm

Some posts from several sites on narcissism to partly explain the reasons.

"The reason malignant narcissists are so convincing, however, has just as much to do with our core beliefs as it does with their skilled performances. Our inherent belief that everyone possesses the same conscience, moral inclinations and/or level of empathy that we do actually makes us more vulnerable, both as individuals and as a society, to rationalizing, minimizing or denying the damage that psychological predators inflict." ~ SYJ.
narcissisticandemotionalabuse.com

"Narcissism does not exist in a vacuum. It can't. Therefore, there are always enablers. Enablers are the people who support the narcissist, defend the narcissist, fight for the narcissist, people the narcissist recruits to their side. These people are usually called "flying monkeys," and I'll be doing a episode of the show specifically about them in the future. But there are other types of enablers too.
These are the people who might not agree with or defend the narcissist, but who enable the narcissist by putting up with their behavior, or rescuing them or bailing them out of the catastrophes they manage to create. These are the people who say, "She's your mother, you need to forgive her" or "How can you abandon your husband when you know he has problems?" or, "I give in to your sister to keep the peace." or “ there must have been a good reason why he/ she cheated”.
These people usually don't have a malicious motive. Like flying monkeys, they often think they are helping. They are not. They are reinforcing the narcissist's behavior and making the problem worse. The more the narcissist's behavior works for them, the more they will do it. This is just like a child throwing a temper tantrum. If the tantrum is given in to, it will be repeated. If it is repeated and given into often enough, it becomes a pattern of behavior and eventually, the child knows no other way to react. They are simply doing what they have been taught will work. What they have been taught, by implied consent, is allowed and even expected."
~ PairedLife

Narcissists aren't equipped with a moral compass so anything goes with them , as long as they dont get caught. They know what they are doing will be rejected by society so their dirty deeds, are done in secret , should they ever be challenged on it they already have a well thought out lie they will use which usually involves blaming someone else.

Stopthenarcissistsnow.com

Narcissists pretend to care about you , they learn the right things to say to make themselves believable. They may even fake an apology. Don't be fooled by this, it's only an act to pull you further into their dysfunctional world so that they can continue to manipulate you .

Narcissist parent answers facebook.

A narcissist cheats and has extramarital affairs and lies about it, usually, but not always , because they grown up seeing one their parents doing it. Children learn from their parents and it becomes acceptable behaviour to get what you want. They are serial cheaters and liars and if they cheat with you then they will cheat on you.

A long but interesting article worth reading is on this site.
http://psychopathsandlove.com/grief-very-real-and-very-complicated-in-the-aftermath/

Grant Taylor

2/13/2018 07:13:09 pm

Had an interesting discussion last night with my wife, sister, sister in law and brother about this. To make this simple and cover both genders let's call them the lying cheater and co-cheater.
They all agreed that when it comes to a high profile person such as a politician, sports person, actor, high profile business people, or actually anyone who has a better quality of life than we do, we automatically know they will lie, cheat , do drugs and have extramarital affairs. Why i asked? Because they have such an over inflated ego that they think they are untouchable and can get away with it because of who they are. Do we all have this opinion?, I think we do, we have a culture where we cut the tall poppies down to size and reality. That's caused by our egos, How dare they think they are better than us!!!!
So when the shit hits the fan with this politician having an affair, getting his mistress pregnant while still living with his wife and children and obviously still sharing the matrimonial bed , who continued to support him with his career , showing the world his happy family while all the time lying to them and to us , we get incensed , jump on the bandwagon of condemning him because we know that he would have done it or something else eventually to prove to us just how they regard themselves as untouchable. WE automatically feel sympathy for his wife, the poor woman, not knowing this was going on, trusting and believing his lies, tsk tsk tsk. What a lying scumbag.
Then the other side of the coin!! If good old Joe or Mary, who we have known for years either as a family member, a friend or workmate do exactly the same thing then of course we go into defensive mode to side with them, no, no, no, they would not do this without a good reason, we know them so well or think we do , they are wonderful people , they have had such a hard life, they never complain, there must be a problem in their relationship they don't talk about, the co cheater must be giving them the support and love they are not getting at home, so we side with them, believe their lies, give them sympathy and support ,blame and ostracise the partner who obviously has caused the problem. Because no normal down to earth hard working person , like us, would do such a despicable thing without a good reason, average people don't do things like that.
Ha ha ha, yeah right, UNLESS they are a NARCISSIST/ SOCIOPATH who has been lying, using and manipulating you for years and is not and never has been the kind wonderful person you have been manipulated into believing they are, who, according to them, has been blamed and victimised so many times by unscrupulous people and has survived it all , with your support and sympathy of course.
When i asked the ladies how they would feel if this was them , assured them it never would be them, but speaking as a woman and wife in general.
After thinking and speaking together they all agreed on this… They would feel dirty, defiled, unworthy, second rate, emotionally gutted and physically sick probably to the point of throwing up, to find out that he had been shagging this woman one night then coming home the next night and doing the same with her in what she thought of as a loving and caring physical relationship where he professed his love for her and went to sleep wrapped up in each others arms and love ,still with the stink of that other woman on him. Then for him to go back to that woman and laugh about how he was lying to her and she believed him. It was the actions of two sick, lying lowlifes who each knew that what they were doing was wrong in every sense of the word. They also pointed out that would have been the reason why the man in this site had to use VIAGRA because according to the information on here, he kept it up for over a year, with his working late and weekends as his excuse for being away so much and lied about it not only to her but to those who covered up for him and believed the lies they both told to cover up the truth.The co cheater who knew he was married, still living at home and sharing the same bed with his wife who she had never even met and who deliberately started the affair with him to get any man available at the time, because she had been dumped by the guy she really was after.. Narcissists are attracted to other Narcissists.
Bro and i were surprised at just how vocal and angry they were, how supportive they were for his wife and have substituted more suitable words to print than the ones they spat out about them.

George Lawrence

2/13/2018 09:36:11 pm

When you decide to end a relationship for a reason other than your partner treated you badly, simply because you don't want to be with them anymore, then the right and honourable thing to do is be honest and end it before you go looking for a replacement. End the relationship , make sure your partner does not suffer anymore than your sudden desertion causes, dont rub it in that you have found a replacement, dont leave them in financial trouble , do everything you can to minimise the pain put on someone who did nothing wrong either to you or by you . To cheat on and lie to your partner then lie to others to excuse your behaviour and get sympathy is a low act and shows that you never cared for your partner at all, before, during and after the relationship ends. You obviously started the relationship for reasons other than love, such as a narcissist does, for gain. To continue to have an intimate relationship with your partner while having the same with the person your cheating with is the highest form of insult ,selfishness and manipulation to your partner and the lowest act you can do and leaves the injured partner wondering what happened, what they did wrong, why this other person is better than them. . From what i see this is what he did for over a year and she did in her relationship with one partner culminating in not knowing which one was the father of her child, her partner or the man she was cheating with. Lies, lies and more lies to cover up the true facts and keep everyone feeling sorry for them, supporting them and blaming the cheating on the partner, who is by now is going through self doubt ,emotional trauma and more often than not trying to sort out the financial mess they have been left with . . . . So be decent and honest, move out , then find a replacement , at least leave your partner or spouse with some dignity and respect to start rebuilding their life on. Dont lie and drag it out for months or years while you milk them for everything financially or because you need their support in some way or just in case the situation with the other person doesn't work out . That's a cowards way to do it and narcissists are all cowards. The actions of this man make me ashamed to be a man and i'm sure most women find her actions just as shameful.
The past has shown that if they cheat once they will cheat again and that if they cheat with you then they will cheat on you.

Gaslighting is the effect of many manipulation tactics:
"Consider the tactic of rationalization. I also call this tactic excuse making or justification. For a long time, professionals considered this an unconscious defense mechanism. But it mostly represents a person’s deliberate, conscious attempt to sway you. Manipulative characters count on your conscientiousness and good nature to accomplish that. In your heart, you might believe what they did was cruel, selfish, or callous. But they offer a plausible enough sounding justification for it. Then you begin to wonder. Now, it’s not that they don’t know what they did is wrong, they know before they do it. If they didn’t absolutely know most people would find it wrong, they wouldn’t seek to justify it by spinning a web of lies. But to get you to defer to their way of seeing things, they have to build a strong case. "
~ Dr. George Simon

Sneaky Techniques Covert Narcissist Use To Disarm And Demean You
Covert narcissists present new challenges; they can appear meek, innocent, charitable, even humble at first glance. They can be disarmingly seductive, even loving, personable and gracious.
Yet beneath their quieter nature and seemingly sensitive façade lurks a contempt and sense of entitlement that is ultimately even more harmful simply because it is so startling and traumatizing to the victims who bear witness to it. Their tactics work to diminish, demean and sabotage their victims behind the scenes – which is why their manipulation and exploitation can leave their loved ones blindsided and reeling from the unexpected psychological violence they subject them to.
https://blogs.psychcentral.com/…/3-sneaky-techniques-cover…/

Nathan Parkinson

2/14/2018 05:32:33 pm

A few more interesting , true and proven facts from other sites to explain a Narcissist. So many sites with so much information , so many horror stories from so many different people, that are basically the same thing over and over, surely the truth must sink in eventually.

A narcissist doesn't have any boundaries and doesn't respect others boundaries, they simply push them aside and trample on them. The have no feeling for others or care about the damage they do. Everyone is there to be used and they will do whatever is necessary to obtain what they want. Using sex, lies, manipulation ,emotional abuse, financial abuse and the poor wounded me sympathy ploy is their way to obtain what they desire, want and need. In their world they are better than and deserve more than the rest of us mere mortals who are here to give supply to them. As they have no conscience or feel remorse , guilt or regret, they don't have any feelings of morality and right or wrong that normal people do , these are the feelings we have that makes us put the brakes on and stop when we realise we are doing the wrong thing or hurting others, something the narcissist will never do..
That's the bottom line and nothing will change that with them, even when caught out they will never accept responsibility for their actions and behaviour, they will always be the one who is being victimised and abused in their fake made up world and will elicit sympathy and support from anyone who they can convince they are innocent and misunderstood with their lies, exaggerated stories and tears.

"Narcissists are the most confusing (and dangerous) people on earth. If they are toxic or malignant narcissists, they take control and rob you of your independence in every way. Don’t confuse a garden variety selfish person with a full on narcissist or sociopath.
What’s difficult to assess in the beginning is that narcissists can seem super nice and generous and caring. Then slowly things begin to change as their masks slip and they morph into the black hole of need, of demand, of criticism. And the list goes on. Until you’re walking through a minefield, trying not to be punished for offending."
~ ReachOutRecovery, ROR

Narcissists , sociopaths have lifelong patterns of deceitfulness for personal gain.
They lack remorse and empathy and are wizards at rationalising away how they hurt and mistreat others.
The covert Narcissist often appears quiet, shy, sensitive and caring when you first meet them and in the initial stages of getting to know them, this causes us to let our guard down .
But don't be fooled, this tactic is employed to hide who they really are while deceiving you and others into believing they are kind, humble and self-effacing. This is the stage where they sit quietly, watch and listen while studying you to find what your weaknesses are, your likes and dislikes, your wants ,needs and desires and by supplying them with this information they know what to mirror back at you to get the most from you.
Deceit and lies prevent exposure, Its what the narcissist fears the most and tries to avoid at all cost.. If exposed , the ability to snare the desired target is gone and they have to move on to their second choice they have waiting in the wings. They always have a back up plan. A plan B you can call it.

Gary Small. The empathy trap book

To all narcissists, abusers, liars and manipulators.
To their flying monkeys and enablers.
“You will never understand the damage you did to someone,
until the same thing is done to you.
And someone, somewhere, somehow, someday will inflict the same damage on you,
Because what goes around comes around and that… is a fact.

Alex Jackson

2/15/2018 04:59:52 pm

Narcs always have a plan B.
From what i know and told by several people, she had him waiting as her plan B if the guy she was after , one of her kids fathers? Piked out and stayed with his wife and family.
He had his wife still on the hook supporting him emotionally and financially while he was working through his “ mid life crisis” and probably would have taken him back because she didn't know about his cheating, i was told that he also had a plan C waiting for him in the background . Just in case his co cheater got the other guy and his wife didn't take him back. Devious pair is putting it mildly.

A female associate who has read the site summed it up perfectly.

“ Let me get this straight, what this shows is that they are playing with the lives of others and the result of who gets kicked to the curb and who gets kept ,will depend on her getting this one guy, the one she has been screwing around with for years and has a child by, who is married, to leave his wife and family.? If he gives in to her then it destroys his wife and family and the guy she has waiting as her backup, her plan B, goes back to his wife as if nothing happened other than he sorted out his midlife crisis. If the first guy says no and stays with his wife, which he obviously had enough sense to do, then she goes back to the second guy who she has been screwing at the same time as the first one, he then throws his wife to the curb , continues lying to her about his so called , “emotional crisis” till he sucks her dry financially and destroys her and the family, and the second woman he has on the back burner just in case is also discarded.? That about it?. What a pair of scheming, lying, greedy sick narcissists. Not only had a plan B but a plan C as well. Totally disgusting and no regard for who gets hurt as long as they both get what they want. You have to wonder if Mr plan B went back to his wife would they have kept up the affair just in case either got caught out and it all fell apart or would he have scouted out his next one or kept the other woman he had on as his reserve .
Not one bit of love or commitment by either of them to their partners , families or each other, no guilt or remorse or compassion. Bed hopping like a couple of over sexed teenagers to find who suits them best at that time. How many others were they screwing around with that hasn’t come out yet?.They deserve each other. . “

I actually could not have put it better myself. And the world thinks this politician is a scum bag for his cheating?. One other very important piece of information to know and take into consideration, regardless of the story, lies or excuse he has given, he did exactly the same thing to his first wife that he did to his second wife.. So it rings true when they say: Once a cheater and a liar always a cheater and liar . Makes you wonder just how many other lies they have told about things.

Marian Lightfoote

2/16/2018 01:31:26 pm

As you all know, Dianne sent me copies of the journals she kept when going to therapy after the suicide attempt. I have previously posted several extracts from them. With what is being discussed at the moment this might be of help. Have asked Jess to publish it on the new page section as its quite long and detailed.

Alex Jackson

2/17/2018 12:21:31 pm

Thanks for the journal entry you posted. It really kicked over the can of worms and exposed in a very personal and emotional way just what they put her through. If i had been a woman i probably would have cried.I did smile at one point where he said he was scared of his first wife as she used to beat him up. If she did? Don’t blame her one bit. Seems he deserved it. If you have any more put them up as they are well worth reading to fill in the gaps and gives a truer version of his stories of how badly he suffered . As for Kings, be a man for once and admit what you did was wrong and go try and make it right. But I won’t hold my breath waiting and neither will anyone else. And Maz, you get what you pay for and you shore paid a hefty price for what you got in more ways than one. What that politician did pales in comparison to this; the only difference is he got caught out big time because of who he is. But it did do one good thing, it exposes, by bringing out, immoral and emotionally abusive creeps like them. They say one thing and do the opposite, lie about everything,cheating and conning those around them is no big deal and no regard for who the hell they hurt in the process. .

Phill Marshall

2/17/2018 05:23:43 pm

Matey, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting either. Narcs never hold themselves responsible or culpable for anything they do, unless it suits their purpose. They have this knack of twisting every situation to their own advantage and totally disregarding the pain and suffering they cause to anyone and lie so often that to them it becomes the truth and to them because it’s “ their” truth then expects everyone else to accept it as such. If you dare question them on it. that’s where the tears and sympathy card is used, “ poor me, I am being victimized again “and unfortunately that’s where decent people get sucked in, they lay this guilt trip on you and look so pathetic and act so hurt and vulnerable that most times we change tact and give them the benefit of the doubt..
.” Sorry” is not even in their vocabulary. It’s a word others are expected to say to them regardless that it’s the narc in the wrong, because a Narc is never wrong no matter how much evidence there is to prove it. Take heart in the fact that everyone who has to continue to have contact with either of them for any reason knows the truth and what they have done and might have to be polite to them to their face but has no respect and feels utter contempt for them in reality. If they say it’s raining, we have to go outside to check, that’s how much we believe anything they say. .
It might have taken his wife a couple of years to see the truth and realise it had nothing to do with anything she did but at least she finally did see how this all went down, as many in a similar situation never do because they are so mentally and emotionally brainwashed it takes control of their lives and they never see the truth so continue to blame themselves . .

Lauren Morrison

2/17/2018 12:55:17 pm

If after reading that and I know they read the site, he or rather both of them don’t feel any guilt or shame for what they did then it proves just what they are without any doubt. I have a feeling there will be a lot more people cutting contact with them now, as what she wrote is from the heart and has such a ring of truth to it you know its right, regardless of whatever excuse or lies they come up with to explain it in their favour. Put it together with what Alex’s lady friend said and Grants wife, sister and sister in law said shows the no one believes a single thing they say about anything, simply too many lies and cover-ups about to many things and to many others getting the blame for everything that goes wrong while they play the victims, I feel they have played that card once too often. You have to wonder if the realise just how the majority of those around them really feel about them or are they living in denial? In their own made up world where everyone thinks they are so perfect and they are never at fault for anything. . . No one is ever going put their trust in them again. There own fault, you reap what you sow as they say.

Liz Carmichael

2/17/2018 06:25:26 pm

Don’t you wish the narcissist’s true character manifested itself in their appearance as a warning to the normal decent people of this world? It doesn’t though so we have to stay vigilant and not give our trust and respect away so easily. Let it be earned...
Yes, it definitely would be wonderful to see those fangs and the big ass rat tails swaying behind them and to visually see them as the ghetto rats they are as they wander among us rubbing their hands in glee and anticipation while looking for their next victim.
Borrowed from with thanks to. :::
Stopthenarcissistsnow/facebook

Jack Barker

2/20/2018 06:14:36 am

The divorce laws here in the UK are different to Australia. Here you can cite desertion, adultery, unreasonable behaviour, and have to be separated for more than two years and a few more reasons. In Australia it’s too easy as the only reason for divorce is “breakdown of marriage” and separated for one year. So those like Kings can tell everyone whatever lies they like and get away with it. I am sure if Doreen knew he was cheating on her she would have included Adultery along with Desertion. Having that you were a wife deserter is there for all to see in the court records forever, must have really hit his ego, and his reason that he left her because she was physically abusive to him stands up a bit better and gets him sympathy, especially with those who never knew either him or Dee in the UK. where Adultery as well as Desertion would have been harder to hide and explain. But to do that you have to have proof and she did not know about the woman in Qatar or the one in the UK he was having affairs with. He pretty much kept her on the string as he did with Dianne, except he didn’t use that he was “ confused” as his excuse but that he was away working or looking for work to catch up on the mortgage so she would not suffer and they would be able to keep the house. That I think is the real reason he didn’t want her to have his address in Australia , not because he was scared of her as he stated but because if she found out he was in an adulterous relationship with Dianne , who incidentally was totally blameless in this, not knowing the truth and all the facts , I am sure she would have included Adultery along with desertion in her divorce application and that also would be the reason he never contested it and walked away, not for the reason he gave of again being scared of her. It also would have blown it with Dianne if she found out the truth. As up to this point Doreen had been told he was staying with a friend and his family he met in Qatar and being helped to find work and that he was coming back. So you see there is more to this than ever came out. Kings has a habit of leaving out the parts that don’t show him in a favourable light. I feel quite sorry for Dianne and so do a lot of others here in the UK, she was well and truly used. As for the third party in this I can’t comment on her as I don’t know her but from what I have read she is not much different to Kings. Its ironic that the King of users and conmen was used and conned himself by her . The fact that he hung around and accepted being her second choice shows he was really desperate or he's getting to old for all the cover ups and lies or he knew he had gone to far with Dianne and there was no going back..

Liz Carmichael

2/20/2018 02:45:26 pm

The divorce laws here are pathetic, a spouse can do just about anything and the only official reason for a divorce is “irretrievable breakdown of the marriage after a 12 month separation”. They can, physically abuse, emotionally abuse, financially abuse, manipulate, lie to, steal from, commit adultery and desert their spouse and it never comes out. Then it comes down to who can tell the most believable story to get sympathy and support. Which leaves the cheating lying spouse to come out looking innocent in most cases to continue on their way and do it over again and the real victim to struggle to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives. But it looks like the scales of truth and justice are finally swinging the right way and Mr and Mrs poor me, “ we haven’t done anything wrong, we are innocent, we haven’t lied, we haven’t abused, we are the victims “,have had their stories blown out of the water. He did exactly the same thing to both his ex- wives and I have a feeling a few people are feeling really stupid and guilty for believing the cock and bull stories, “ LIES”, they were told by both of them and finally might realise that by believing them they have been manipulated into , supporting them and giving them sympathy , that they contributed to the destruction they have caused and maybe just might have the courage to give a few apologies to those who deserve it, not just his or her ex’s but all the others who have been damaged by them both over the years including those they have worked with, whose careers and families have been damaged and hurt.. . What is it everyone has been saying?, “ If they cheat once they will cheat again”, “ If they cheat with you then they will cheat on you ,” “ You have to keep telling bigger and better lies to cover up the first lie”.

To blend in with society the Narcissist needs to look good on the outside.
They need to portray the appearance of being a decent, normal human being.
Many people are fooled on first encountering a narcissist, being seduced by their charm, kindness, vulnerability, honesty and integrity.
But the longer you know a narcissist the more apparent their unacceptable behaviour becomes, as cracks begin to appear in their stories and excuses.
They will ignore, slander, denigrate, lie about others to boost their own position and their insatiable ego, and to garner sympathy and support from those around them.
There complete lack on empathy is profound; it’s always all about them.

From and with thanks to... Narcissistic and emotional abuse shattering the illusion.

Julia Rossi " Engineer"

2/20/2018 10:57:49 pm

I totally agree, our “ no blame , no fault”, family law here is wrong. It leaves it open as an all you can eat buffet for narcissists and predators of all kinds. You can marry, do what you like, lie to, cheat on, steal from, financially strip, emotionally abuse or even physically abuse your spouse and then just walk away without any repercussions, looking as innocent as a baby, leaving a trail of heart break and destruction behind, with no fault and no blame attached to someone who was at fault and was to blame. They can then use any excuse and lies as to the reason the marriage broke down and it’s only the other spouse’s word against theirs to go on, no legal documentation to prove otherwise as there is in the UK and other countries. . I’m not sure of the reason they changed it to this here but I have a feeling it was to make the process faster and unclog the court system but it’s not a fair deal by a long shot. Adultery and Desertion is still Adultery and Desertion and makes a mockery out of the marriage vows and promises they made. . It’s only those who are wealthy enough to afford an expensive solicitor that gets any justice as the average person simply can’t afford the legal fees. I read on the site that Mrs Wright’s legal fees were over $20,000.00. And that’s for a straight out uncontested divorce. How many middle and lower class people can afford that after being scammed out of everything by their spouse? I also read that he was smart enough not to have a solicitor, he couldn’t afford one apparently, so let his wife’s solicitor do all the work and it was added on to her bill, smart move on his part. No fault no blame divorce?? What a load of rubbish, there is always a reason, one of the parties are at fault or in some cases both parties are and as this site shows he had his reasons and excuses and got away with it.. To those like these making commitments, promises and vows are nothing more than empty words to use to get what they want and once obtained breaking them is of no importance or consequence. It’s a great pity his first wife didn’t catch him out in his infidelities, if she had it probably would have changed the outcome of everything that has occurred..

Sean Matthews

2/21/2018 01:51:37 pm

Unfortunately the divorce laws here make it easy for anyone with a motive other than a long time commitment to a marriage to come out of it with a clean slate and full pockets. It’s geared towards those who can afford to contest it. Once a manipulative person of any sort, i.e. a narcissist realises this it’s only a matter of time before they use it to their own advantage and usually more than once.
In the last few days have spoken to several about this and all agree that as selfish and clinical as it sounds it’s wise to have a prenup agreement in place, if they are genuine about their feelings for you they will see the reason why and not object. A common prenup is a duel one where both parties give reasonable assumptions of conduct. In fact, if you think about it, it’s just a written, signed statement of your marriage vows, promises etc that is made legally binding and will hold up in the courts, where just saying them at the ceremony is not. Most of those who are well off use prenups, it’s just common sense to them and a safe guard.
Yeah, it’s a pity the first Mrs Wright didn’t find out about his adultery because I think your right, if she had all this mess and drama probably wouldn’t have happened and the second Mrs Wright would not have become the second Mrs Wright and he would have the stigma of being an adulterer and wife deserter to live with which would give everyone a warning to avoid him, if they checked his stories out before becoming involved. As for the other person in this, she deserves everything she gets and had better keep him on a very short leash where she can watch him. If they cheated with you then they will cheat on you. That is a given and not a matter of” if” but a definite” when”. Under the circumstances he should do the same with her. She knew exactly what she was doing and that he was married right from the start and more importantly, that he was living with his wife but still honed in on him. Her previous track record speaks for itself. On a less personal note, I would be very wary of either of them if you work with them, document and date every conversation you have and have a third party present as a witness, it’s the only way you will safeguard yourself and your job. With so many manipulative, scheming, liars in the world it’s become necessary to be more vigilant and not take people on face value. It’s a sad state but unfortunately necessary.

Jess Franklin

2/22/2018 05:53:42 pm

I agree with what you said, what started out as a chance conversation with a stranger on Skype while waiting to talk to her daughter who was working for the government in the UK and a long time friend who was working in Afghanistan would never have gone any further than that if she knew then what she found out later. Like a lot of people who have come into her life she was always willing to help someone out and in talking to him he told her his problems and that he was having trouble finding work and went to Qatar in a last ditched effort to find work and try to resurrect his relationship with a woman he had met there previously when he was there a year ago, so she offered to send his resume around to a lot of friends she had in the mining and engineering industry here in Australia, in the middle east and in south Africa. So he emailed her his resume. Initially there was no intention of anything coming of it other than a new friend overseas as at the time she was in a relationship with a very nice normal guy here, nothing that serious just a bit more than friendship. She even had enough sense to check him out on Google but at the time all that was on the internet about him was a couple of articles about his engine that were a few years old. So it’s a pity others he had used had not had the sense to expose him, it could have saved a lot of pain and suffering if they had, the same with his first wife, if she had known what he was up to their divorce would have been for more than just desertion.
Di has said that in hindsight she should have taken more notice of things he said and did but he always had a plausible and believable explanation for everything. When they went to the UK in 2009 for his “business trip”, she didn’t meet any of his friends or family other than his mother and stepfather who they stayed with. She actually didn’t meet anyone else except them, his excuse was that he was too busy to go visiting people and as it was a very quick trip and last minute decision on her part to go she accepted that. She spent most of the week they were there with his mother and really liked her, said she was sweet and very innocent and childlike, some of the things she told her were a bit confusing and different to his stories which did cause her to ask Kings about them, he told her that his mother was always “off with the fairies” and got confused about a lot of things so not to take any notice of what she said. As she called Dianne by his first wife’s name and seemed to think she was her, Di accepted that he was probably right and dismissed a lot of what she said.
So, yes, your right, all this should never have happened and finding out the truth about him the way she did him was a very painful and traumatic experience. At least now if anyone looks for information about him on the internet they now have a damn good chance of finding this site and finding out the truth. As an added bonus it brought to light someone of the character same as him and exposed the truth about her. So it has served two purposes. It’s then left up to those who read it to accept it as the truth or not. Your also right about the divorce laws here, too easy to get and never held accountable for anything you do.

Marian Lightfoote

2/23/2018 09:18:51 am

Jesse,  Good to see you back and on the road to recovery. But don’t go over doing it, remember it takes time to recover from a serious illness. The articles below have been borrowed from other web sites and might explain some of the reasons why it was so easy for him to convince Dianne that he was genuine.
Manipulative people, more often Narcissists and sociopaths, latch on to empathetic targets and exploit their innate qualities. They find people who are easy going, sympathetic, gentle, kind, helpful, loving, who prefer to avoid conflict and seek to make others happy, especially those they care about .The problem with this is that the Narcissist/ sociopath never reciprocate these qualities and feelings. Instead they feel entitled to use you and your feelings to benefit them in any and every way possible. They will lie, steal, cheat, emotionally abuse and manipulate them until the victim blames themselves for not being good enough and is constantly blaming themselves for everything that does not go the way the Narc/psycho wants, they feel they have to forgive the narc/ psycho for everything they do because they have been brain washed into thinking that they, not the narc/psycho, were the one who caused it. The problem is not your reaction to this emotional and physical abuse but to the abuse itself, their abuse of you. Toxic people constantly look for ways to abuse and then blame the victim and the victim is constantly looking for ways to take the blame and appease the narc/psycho.. Those looking in from the outside will never understand it. Those who have lived in the hell of Narcissistic abuse will in all probability never be able to explain it to themselves or to others.
Part of being emotionally abused is being kept in a mind maze; it’s very hard work and takes a long time to get out, if ever.. The physical consequences of abuse will heal but emotional scars are quite a different matter they are unseen and deeper than anyone can imagine. Strangely enough physical abuse is regarded by others as more damaging, serious and devastating. Most people believe that if you’re not hit then you’re not abused. If only they knew the extent of their ignorance or that they are adding to the emotional abuse and trauma by not understanding and believing it..
Copied from:: the war at home - if only someone knew.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------http://www.narcissistproblems.com/2018/02/n-wmd-narcissistic-weapon-of-mental-destruction.html?m=1#!/2018/02/n-wmd-narcissistic-weapon-of-mental-destruction.htm

Extracts from the article below.. To read full article go to site above.
It takes very little skill to lie to someone who loves or trusts you and the result is a belief in that lie. The ability to love and trust are considered a weakness to be exploited by the narcissist.
This has more to do with the manipulation and exploitation of trust than it does with how mentally weak a victim is. A clear distinction should be made between weakness and the boundaries of trust/love which is often illogical but still does not equate to being mentally weak.
The troubling aspect of this is that the person that created these feelings of guilt , blame, self-doubt, self-destruction and mental weakness is overlooked, as the focus is on the one who committed suicide and sympathy and support given to the bereaved partner and so the narcissist gets away with murder by suicide.

Actions prove who someone is. Just as words prove who they pretend to be.

Alex Jackson

2/23/2018 02:21:54 pm

Hey Jess, good to see you up and about. So heed Marian’s advice and take it slow.
Don’t know if you have been following our political dramas here at home but the s**t hit the fan big time and he resigned. Just goes to show, if you do the wrong thing, have extramarital affairs, commit adultery, cheat and lie, cause pain and suffering to your spouse and family then it doesn’t matter who you are, because the truth will come out and decent people won’t put up with it.
It took a politicians reprehensible actions and the public outcry from it to ram it home to the last few flying monkeys and genuinely conned others, just what they did, and that the damage they caused was real and every excuse they made was nothing more than lies to cover-up the truth and I’m not talking just about this one particular situation but many others they have both caused. . Karma has a wicked sense of humour, fired one arrow and got a bag full.
At least he had to guts to stand up and admit he did the wrong thing and apologise to his wife and kids for the pain he caused, as to if he actually meant it or not is debatable but really to save his own future he had no choice. So now we sit back and wait to see if anyone else is man enough to do the same. It’s not as if he has to stand in front of a news camera and admit that he committed adultery, had an extra marital affair, cheated on his wife, lied to her and his kids, got his mistress pregnant, caused them pain, suffering and humiliation with his betrayal, will do everything possible to minimise the emotional damage and will make sure they are financially secure. Just a matter of jumping on a bike and riding a few Ks for one of them and saying, “Sorry, What I did was wrong.”.
As one of our apprentices said,
“” After reading all this, the next time I meet someone I’m interested in, I’m going to call their ex and get the other side of the story. Sometimes things just don’t add up. People lie and exaggerate too much.””
I would say that good, decent, caring people are finally realising that things and other people are not always who and what they appear to be , so be cautious before placing your trust in them.

Follow up email on the way, take your time to reply, no rush mate, whenever you feel up to it.

Natalie Garvin

2/23/2018 04:25:24 pm

This has shown that REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE, this sort of conduct full lies, deception, infidelity , abuse , adultery, desertion, causing distress, confusion ,emotional pain and suffering to someone who did not deserve it ,,, WILL NOT, be tolerated, condoned or excused by the majority of people. It’s long overdue that we show those who do this the distain, disgust and lack of respect and trust we have in them and tell them to their faces just what they are and how we feel instead of pretending that it does not concern us and look the other way. Most decent people now understand and accept that if they do this in their private lives to a partner or spouse and children, then they will act the same way in anything they do, that they are totally untrustworthy and liars who will always put their own selfish needs and interests first regardless of who gets hurt. .

Jess Franklin

2/24/2018 10:04:24 am

Thanks for all the get well messages. .The MO has given me another month before passing me fit to go back to work. I am feeling ok but will take it easy for the next couple of weeks. . Will check the site on and off and might jump in occasionally with a comment and will reply to emails etc in due course. Our Lady Di has been keeping me up to date on the site, fielding enquiries and such, which was hard for her to do but it’s getting easier so she tells me.  And yes, I keep up with what’s going on back home. It’s hard not to, its headlines around the world. Will leave you with the following...
Once you see the ugly truth about the Narcissist, you can’t unsee it.
Once you catch them in a lie you can’t ever believe them again,
Once you comprehend how selfish they are you don’t ever ask for anything again,
Once you feel and see the hurt they cause, you start protecting yourself and others.
Once you realise they don’t care for you or about you, you stop caring for them.
Once you realise that to them you are just a thing to be used, you know it’s time to walk away.
Life is not about what happens to you but how you choose to respond.

Lauren Morrison

2/24/2018 07:26:59 pm

,Sorry to hear Jess has been ill, wondered why he had been so quiet on here. Hope everything goes well.

The following is so true, it actually happened to me with one of them some years ago and it’s something I have regretted ever since. It took me a long time to gain back the trust and respect of my peers and myself respect. . I learnt a valuable lesson the hard way and the only excuse I can offer is that I was young and impressionable and this person was my supervisor.
Once you condone their behaviour you have to continue to condone it, you become their back up and if you disagree with anything they do they will turn on you faster than a snake strikes
No matter what goes wrong in a Narcissists life it will be another’s fault and you will be expected to agree with them, you will be held up as a shield to prove a point. “ Ask so an so, they were there”, So an so knows what happened, ask them”, “it wasn’t my fault, ask so an so,”.
The fake persona they wear will not let them admit they made a mistake. They must be seen as perfect and innocent at all costs and will defer to you as their witness, compelling you to back up their excuses and lies.
They will never change and eventually you will be regarded as Incompetent, untrustworthy and a liar as they are.
In the end you will be blamed by them for not defending them strongly enough and will hang it all on you. When they move on, you will be left behind to pick up the pieces of your shattered life and career.
Trying to rebuild the trust of those around you will not be easy as you will carry the stigma of being that same as them for a long time.
Be honest, truthful and get all the facts before you back up someone’s excuses regardless of who they are.
Article from::.
stopthenarcissistsnow.

You can apply all that to their personal life as well, as I am sure they use the same tactics. So everything that he has been accused of with the adultery , lies and cheating, will I am sure have at least one person backing him up as not being true.

Max Rosenburg

2/26/2018 05:31:25 pm

Good to see hear your on the mend young fella. Reading what is being said on here will not make one scrap of difference to either of them and if you actually expect him to as it was put, “jump on his bike and go make an apology”, well, it simply will never happen. We all know that, no guts and keep ignoring it is the way they go. Hell could freeze over before either will ever admit they did something like this, deny it enough and you convince yourself and gullible others that it’s all lies.
If a person is dishonest, lies, cheats, steals once, then it’s a better than even chance they have before and will again without any guilt or feeling the need to apologise. . Deflecting blame and lying is how they get away with it regardless of who gets caught in the cross fire, it’s all about them and them only coming out of it as the innocent victim. Everything on here gives people the chance to decide for themselves and if they choose to ignore the truth then it’s their own fault when it happens to them. You and others have done your best to expose the truth and that’s all you can do.
A dishonest person has no integrity and, integrity is the most important trait we have. It defines who were are and shows others that we are trustworthy and will admit when we are wrong.. .

Angela Mitchell

2/26/2018 10:14:32 pm

This is absolutely true and very informative. Perhaps more people should take notice of it. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Often Narcissists try to convince others that they are the persecuted party. Lies roll off their tongue with ease and spontaneity. They justify stealing by falsely claiming they have been stolen from and are getting back what is theirs. They justify cheating by claiming they have been cheated on. Tears fall in the presence of benevolent listeners who feel they are helping by giving them sympathy and support. But the seemingly tight bond between them breaks if the Narcissist is crossed and it doesn’t take much to do this. Any perceived slight or imagined grievances , questioning them or pointing out inaccuracies in their stories , sets off revenge, viciousness, lies about you, emotional abuse and at times, physical abuse. They will go to shocking lengths and depths to malign those who thwart them or point out their faults/ lies .They will do this in such a way that they come out looking like the injured party. This will include a person who is in a romantic relationship with them , a spouse or partner, friends, a co-worker, parents, biological children, their partners children, a minion who supports and covers up their lies, their ex’s or anyone who is serving a purpose to keep that false mask firmly attached to the Narcissists face. They feel no guilt or remorse for what they do because the world has to revolve around them, their wants and needs. . A relationship of any sort will only last as long as you are of benefit to them. The bottom line is that they are a disaster in any relationship; they use others to reap the benefits they couldn’t achieve based on their real persona. Because the Narcissists knows he /she doesn’t fit into the definition of “normal” they will defend themselves fiercely and use every trick and lie to protect their secrets. They will devalue, dehumanize and destroy their perceived enemy by any means possible regardless of who they are, to keep their .true self hidden. When you realise and accept that a fake person wearing a mask is behind all the pain, suffering and disruption in your life everything will change because you are of no further use having unmasked the truth and the real person behind the mask. . The Narcissist is nothing more than a fraud and a coward and will beat a hasty retreat once exposed. Behind that mask is a sick individual who lost their real self a long time ago. They have been play acting so long they believe their own resume of who they pretend to be. The only time a Narcissist will apologise for any wrong doing is when there is something they will gain from it. No apology is ever sincere or heartfelt; it’s all part of the play acting.
www.psycologytoday.com

Evelyn Frost

2/27/2018 12:32:10 pm

This is something you should take the time to do before you make a judgement. Please don’t make the mistake of not getting all the facts, I guarantee once you realise and understand, you will look at this person in a totally different way. If they do this much damage to an adult just try to imagine what damage they do to children with their manipulation and lies.

‘’ “” To those new to the world of recovery from a toxic relationship or those who are trying to understand what happened to someone they know or are trying to get your head around the different stories being told and sort out the lies from the truth.
Go look up the following terms and learn the true psychological damage Narcissists, Sociopaths and Psychopaths inflict on their victim.
Love bombing.
Gas lighting.
Flying Monkeys.
Narcissistic Supply.
Targeting.
Hoovering.
Grey Rock.
No contact.
Emotional Vampires.
Idealize, Devalue, Discard Stages.
Pathological liar
Emotional Abuse.
Emotional manipulation. .
The list could go on .
Education is critical to fully understand the depths of Dysfunction and the horrific and sometimes permanent damage they do.””””
Shannon Thomas.. southlakecouncelling.org.

Evelyn Frost

2/27/2018 01:51:12 pm

Hopefully this will give you an incentive to check out the facts.

http://www.narcissistproblems.com/2018/02/n-wmd-narcissistic-weapon-of-mental-destruction.html?m=1#!/2018/02/n-wmd-narcissistic-weapon-of-mental-destruction.htm

Extract from the article below.. To read full article go to site above.
Gaslighting is the intentional use of manipulative techniques to drive you insane
One of the dysfunctional family members of pathological lying is a form of manipulation often referred to as “Gaslighting”. The main element of gaslighting is an abusive behaviour that implants a sense of doubt in a target that makes them question their perceptions and memories. The best way to promote these misconceptions and distorted memories is for the gaslighter to use denial. They will deny that events happened, altogether and if they don’t use denial then history will simply be rewritten. Memories are then replaced with extensive exaggerations of facts that are used to validate the version of the gas-lighter’s story.
It takes very little skill to lie to someone who loves or trusts you and the result is a belief in that lie. Ultimately, what this argument boils down to is that the ability to love and trust are considered a weakness. Further, this has more to do with the manipulation and exploitation of trust than it does with how mentally weak a victim is. A clear distinction should be made between weakness and the boundaries of trust/love which is often illogical but still does not equate to being mentally weak.
Gaslighting is the slow journey down the trail of insanity where the truth of your being is plucked away one little morsel at a time and slowly replaced with the reality of a master manipulator. Narcissists are the black widows of the mind because original thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of yours are injected with narcissistic toxins that necrotize and putrefy neural connections; of this I’m almost positive. So unless having your mind cauterized by someone you love and trust is considered a weakness then I guess I’m mistaken and very very mentally weak.
Depression or a victim of Gaslighting?

According to the Mayo Clinic the following is a list of symptoms of gaslighting…. I mean depression:
Although depression may occur only once during your life, people typically have multiple episodes. During these episodes, symptoms occur most of the day, nearly every day and may include:
• Feelings of sadness, tearfulness, emptiness or hopelessness. Angry outbursts, irritability or frustration, even over small matters. Loss of interest or pleasure in most or all normal activities, such as sex, hobbies or sports. Sleep disturbances, including insomnia or sleeping too much. Tiredness and lack of energy, so even small tasks take extra effort. Anxiety, agitation or restlessness. Feelings of worthlessness or guilt, fixating on past failures or self-blame. Trouble thinking, concentrating, making decisions and remembering things. Frequent or recurrent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts or suicide.
•
• Each of the symptoms and emotions described above are also the symptoms of a victim of gaslighting so where is the line drawn between a normal reaction to bullshit and actual depression? Society has become so fixated on treating the symptoms that the cause of illness is left untreated, festering, and metastasizing like a cancerous tumour.

The troubling aspect of this slow mental entombment is that the actual problem, i.e. the person, that created this self-destructive behaviour in an otherwise sane and caring person is ignored as being the cause of this destruction and given support and sympathy for being so caring and patient in putting up with the mental instability, irrational behaviour and lies of the person who in fact is the victim in all this. The narcissist gets away with this because those around them only see what’s on the surface and what the narcissist wants them to see. .

Marian Lightfoote

2/28/2018 01:54:03 am

Part of a very interesting article and will I hope, answer questions I have been asked by several people concerning those who this site is about. As one person pointed out who knows them, they seem to caring and giving to be narcissistic but in other respects, such as lies, excuses and never accepting blame, they fit the profile.
The communal Narcissist. Another deceptive wolf in sheep’s clothing.
In his book Rethinking Narcissism, Dr. Craig Malkin distinguishes between three types of narcissists—the extrovert, the introvert, and the communal.
The extrovert is the easy-to-spot kind whose grandiosity is presented in Technicolor, the preener and the manipulator we’re most familiar with. The introvert (also called the “covert” narcissist) is somewhat more confounding because he or she lacks outward braggadocio and may have a self-effacing or vulnerable manner which belies the way he or she feels superior to everyone. But the communal narcissist is entirely something else. I hadn’t heard of this category until I read Malkin’s descriptions, and perhaps you haven’t, either. This third type of narcissist is a relative newcomer to the party; the designation is only a bit over a decade old.
Surprisingly, while this narcissist shares characteristics with the other two—these are all people who continuously seek to validate their self-perceived grandiosity, esteem, entitlement, and power—this type focuses on promoting him or herself through commitment to others, communal goals, and the supposed ability to listen and connect. Yes, this is very counterintuitive (aren’t narcissists supposed to be out for themselves?), but a strong case has been made for these supposed do-gooder types. Here is how Malkin explains them in his book:
"[T]hey regard themselves as especially nurturing, understanding, and empathic. They proudly announce how much they give to charity . They trap you in a corner at a party or the office lunch room and whisper excitedly about how thoughtful they’ve been to their grieving next-door neighbor. They believe themselves better than the rest of humanity, but cherish their status as givers, not takers."
Does this sound familiar?
I’ve known people like this. They’re people who talk about having a “mission” or are “committed to a cause,” and they make it clear that while your life and concerns are petty and shallow, theirs are possessed of deep meaning and intent. You may have run into them on the PTA or at a charity event, booster club, or fundraiser. You may have been surprised when one showed his or her true colors by becoming hugely territorial and much more concerned with personal aggrandizement and appreciation than the communal goal you thought you were all working toward. And then there’s some terrible politicized brouhaha: Bingo!
• ; He or she promises to fix whatever no one else has been able to. Keep in mind that this is how the narcissist likes to think of him or herself. The reality is that he or she lacks the ability to empathize, is still a game-player, and carries all the other traits generally associated with narcissism. He or she is involved in community, office politics and with family only as a validation of self.
• Understanding communal narcissism explains why sometimes women and men who are largely viewed as “pillars of the community” and known for their devotion to charities and other causes can be highly destructive and unloving in their personal roles as friends, husbands, wives, fathers, and mothers. The friends, spouses and children of the communal narcissist find themselves in a particular bind because who would ever believe them?
• In their article on communal narcissism, Jochen Gebauer and his colleagues note that just as an agentic narcissist (the one who defines himself through actions that show him to be superior) will be liked and even admired until people catch on, the communal narcissist also enjoys initial admiration but will fall out of favour even more drastically because of the hypocritical nature of his or her motives.

Susan Taylor-Jones

2/28/2018 12:21:56 pm

Part of an article , to read in full go to https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/02/why-do-people-believe-narcissists-rather-than-their-victims/?utm_
Why do people believe the narcissists rather than their victims.
By Shahida Arabi, February 24th 2018
It’s a head-scratcher and perhaps you’ve been here before. You gain insight into who the narcissist really is, but because narcissists have enablers that work on their behalf, carrying out their dirty work for them and ensuring that no one sees that the emperor has no clothes, it’s a predicament for anyone who has tried to navigate the sinister workings of a world designed to serve these manipulators.
The chameleon-like narcissist shows multiple faces to the public, each one more duplicitous than the last. They blend in easily to any social groups they are a part of. But there is one catch: there is usually a target they like to zoom in on, usually because they possess the perceived qualities of empathy, compassion, integrity and coveted resources. Narcissists are pathologically envious of anyone who dares to outshine them or steal the spotlight: whoever presents a threat must be extinguished. Their light must be dimmed, in only the covert fashion the narcissist knows how to employ.
Unfortunately for that target, he or she will become privy to the true self behind the narcissist’s mask. This is a terrifying, yet revealing experience that both alienates and enlightens the victim. This form of covert abuse can take place in romantic relationships, familial relationships, the workplace, even within law enforcement. It can take place in any context where a narcissistic person is able to manipulate someone else.
So how and why does the narcissist get away with it? There are several reasons which I explore below:
Impression management.
The truth is that narcissists are very adept at impression management – in managing the ways others perceive them. They will appear to praise their victims in public, all while criticizing and demeaning them in private. They will provoke their victims into emotionally reacting – and they will use their reactions to the abuse to depict them as “unhinged.” This is the way they both simultaneously isolate and covertly abuse their loved ones bebehind closed doors – all while making their victims look like the abusers to law enforcement, to their social networks and to society as a whole.
Moreover, narcissists know how to build a stellar reputation. They will defer to those they know have more power than them (at least momentarily, in order to find out how to manipulate them), but they will also hunt the seemingly powerless on the down-low. They will appear to be conscientious about the feelings and ideas of others, when in reality, they are gathering intel as to who is vital for their agenda and who must be diminished so they can take the throne. They are collecting information to see which weak spots they can exploit, and even which strengths they can use against the victim to make their target feel most powerless.
Emotional predators are constantly reassessing who is useful to them and who is a threat. Those who present a threat to the narcissist (whether due to their talents, their education level, their competence, success, appearance or a number of different qualities) will at first be subjected to starry-eyed admiration and heaps of admiration before they are devalued.
A high and mighty pedestal will be built for their victims, just for the purpose of being destroyed. The narcissist needs to stage this cycle in order to derive their sense of power. Being able to keep their victims off-balance, never knowing their place in the narcissist’s life, is crucial for them to inflict the maximum amount of pain. So the chosen victims will go through a cycle of idealization and devaluation, pitted and triangulated with other members of their harem until they are discarded ..
Those who are useful to the narcissist will be placed in a perpetual idealization phase until the time comes for them, too, to be kicked off the pedestal. In a narcissist’s labyrinth of lies and mind games, no one truly “wins”. Keep in mind that there are just as many female narcissists as males.

Alex Jackson

2/28/2018 03:37:06 pm

Thanks for the recent articles as this site is a topic of conversation almost daily , they cleared up a few misconceptions some had and answered questions most of us have asked and wasn’t sure what the answers were. A whole lot of people now see the full picture and know how to react to them. With a bit of luck more will read them, take notice and be more aware of what’s actually going on, not just with them but with others in the future. .. I have included the following sent to me by a family member who said that while doing some fact finding they came across this and that it is exactly how it feels being around them and was grateful for all the articles and others stories about them in the past, it’s taken some of the confusion and feelings of being crazy away by showing how they manipulate with lies and half truths and they are not as blameless as they say.
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“ After spending some time with a narcissist you will find you’re more of a detective than a friend, spouse, family member, lover, and neighbour or co- worker. The relationship won’t be a normal one with healthy interactions. It will be you trying to decode and decipher all of the hidden motives and meanings the narcissist throws at you. You will be left trying to figure out what is true and what are lies. Keeping you confused, off balance and unsure is how they control you. They simply can’t be trusted in anything they say or do. “
Stopthenarcissistsnow/facebook

Marian Lightfoote

3/3/2018 01:55:06 am

As I have received a request for any other articles that may be of interest to help some understand not only the mindset of the narcissist but also their helpers I thought this might be of interest
Narcissists often recruit people called ‘Apaths’ or ‘ flying monkeys’ to help with their games. Here's why they are dangerous.
LINDSAY DODGSON
FEB 28, 2018, 10:00 PM
• These people are called “apaths” and they are completely indifferent to the victim’s suffering.
• Sometimes they genuinely don’t care, and other times they go along with the abuse because they don’t want to be the target themselves.
It just shows that you can’t trust someone else’s social circle to help you work out what’s really going on.
Shannon Thomas, author of “Healing from Hidden Abuse: A Journey Through the Stages of Recovery from Psychological Abuse,” told Business Insider an apath is someone who is apathetic to the harm in their social circle, particularly if someone is being manipulative, hurtful, or abusive. Their role, she said, is critical to the narcissist’s game.
“An apath is the wing-person to a narcissist and plays a key role in normalising the toxic individual and their harmful behaviours towards others,” she said. “A narcissist must have apaths in their life to keep the facade of social normalcy going. Apaths create the illusion that a narcissist has friends, is well-liked and can get along with everyone, except the target of abuse.”
Rather than standing up for the victim, or giving them support in the fact they are being mistreated, the apath will instead be completely indifferent to their suffering. When challenged, they come up with excuses and say things like “it’s not my battle,” or “well, they don’t treat me that way.”
By minding their own business, they are effectively being a pawn on the narcissist’s game board, making the victim believe they must be going crazy.
In some online forums, apaths are known as “flying monkeys.” They do all the narcissist’s dirty work behind the scenes while the narcissist can sit back and watch.
In other words, apaths recruit an avoidance strategy and a “rather you than me” mindset to stay in the narcissist’s good books. This makes them particularly dangerous, because there’s no way to tell where their limits are. Studies have shown how people can blindly follow orders and become agents in a terrible, destructive processes as a result.

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Karen Matthews

3/3/2018 01:10:00 pm

Interesting and so true.
http://healthyliber.info/the-ten-narcissistic-commandments/
1. I am right. You are wrong.
Everything I say and do is founded in the logic of my world and it follows that is has to be right. It equally follows therefore that whatever you say and do is wrong. I cannot ever allow you to be seen to be right because that means I am ceding control to somebody whom I regard as inferior. This undermines my sense of superiority. Maintaining this state of me being right and you being wrong requires various manipulative techniques including blame-shifting, projection, denial and deflection.
2. There is no you and me. There is only me.
You are purely an extension of myself. I want to subsume everything about you into me. This is part of the reason why I seduce you with such totality. I regard you as an appliance that is to be plugged into me and is there to do my bidding, providing me with fuel, looking after me and responding to everything that I command.
3. Do as I say, not as I do.
Do not question me. Who are you to question someone as brilliant as me? Know your place. Submit to me and carry out my whims. Accede to my commands. I am entitled to do as I please .
4. One is never enough
Such is my might that one of you is not enough to sustain me. It is my right to gain fuel from all those that I interact with. This means I will be unfaithful but my infidelity is purely a means to an end. Expect to be triangulated with other people and objects, for my appetite is so vast I must have many supply lines of fuel.
5. Your pain is my gain
I cannot exist without drawing negative fuel from you at some point. It is retribution for your failings.. Your devaluation will happen as it has with many before you and those who are yet to come. It is a process and your agony, hurt and distress is purely part of the necessary equation to sustain me.
6. You are worthless yet I will never leave you alone
You are inferior to me and that inferiority infuriates me since I am reminded that I must depend on someone weak and pathetic. This in turn generates hatred and despising of this chained situation I find myself in. I will cast you to one side once you have served your purpose and my disgust for you can no longer be tolerated.
7. I am everywhere. I am everything
I am omnipotent and omniscient. I have my Lieutenants carrying out my orders without question. I instill myself in every aspect of your life, making you see me, hear me and smell me, even after I am no longer physically near you. I imbue my essence into so much that my toxic memory pervades you for years after you have been cast aside.
8. The games are always being played.
The quest for fuel is unending. To achieve this I must engage in repeated and sustained manipulations and machinations. You and others are but pawns on my giant chessboard as I move you hither and thither in order to achieve my aims. My game-playing means nothing is as it seems, that truth is a stranger to me and lies flow from my mouth as easily as expelled breath.
9. I will never change
I will issue false promises of changing, empty protestations that I shall seek help and perfidious declarations of knowing I need to alter my behaviour but I never shall I see no reason to change. Why should I when this is all I know? Why should I when it is all your fault anyway?
10. Fuel is the rule.
Fuel is at the centre of everything that I do. My actions and decisions are based on acquiring the precious resource. My interaction with strangers, minions, acquaintances and friends is all hinged on the gathering of fuel. The way in which I deal with colleagues and family is always based on the greatest potential for the collection of fuel. Fuel is the reason you were chosen. Fuel is the reason you were seduced, debased and discarded.

Bryce Milson

3/3/2018 03:44:01 pm

What really pisses me off is when someone says, ‘Its cant have been that bad’, ‘ she is always so quiet , caring and helpful’, ‘ she was really hurt when you left’ or and this always gets me, ‘ she just fell out of love with you’ she met someone else’ it wasn’t planned’ of course it was bloody well planned, it wasn’t a random act, they know exactly what they are doing. . I left her ? Was her excuse ,my reasons were never accepted , never believed, She left me years ago, and then continued to keep me around to support her, financially, to give her credibility and the right to do what she wanted without any backlash on her; she was an expert at pretence both in and out of the bedroom. . How the hell do they know how bad it was or wasn’t?. Were they there?. No,, they were on the outside looking in, I was on the inside living a nightmare. The constant lies, more lies to cover up the lies, excuse after excuse for everything, I was always to blame, for what?. Not doing what she wanted when she wanted it, knowing I had to go home every day took every ounce of strength I had, granted there were no outright knock down drag out screaming matches, she never raised her voice, she never had to, the threats, intimidation, manipulation was always quiet and very passive aggressive. I knew she was screwing around, it became a joke that I was the butt of among some I knew, the snide remarks that only I understood, that others laughed about not knowing what they really meant. It didn’t take long to figure out who she had or was screwing. The only regret I had was leaving the children, my children? I honestly don’t know, from the hints she dropped, the questions she answered with lies I doubt I will ever know and I will never take the steps to find out, not for my sake but for theirs and she knows it. So to all of you who support these two and others like them,,, until you are on the inside , until you are the one living in a mine field of emotional abuse, until you think you are going crazy, until you learn the truth, then if you can’t sympathise with the victim of this kind of abuse and manipulation, either keep your mouth shut, keep out of it or go dig out the truth, because you’re doing more damage with your ignorance and stupidity than they did with their abuse. , , you go to bat for them, not knowing the truth and others take notice because your such a nice person and know the facts, or so they assume, the victims character is tainted , credibility shot, looked at with distain and distrust all the while she or he is crying on your shoulder about how badly they were treated and most times it will end up with you comforting them in a more intimate way, you have been set up and well and truly caught, if you’re married then you are caught in the trap of a predator and will have no choice but to champion their cause to save your own reputation and marriage or believe the hype they spin and ruin your marriage and others lives, i feel sorry for you but you need to learn the hard way as i and countless others have before you see the truth. . . Stop assuming just because you know them or think you do that they are the poor bloody blameless victims, they condition you to believe that and so you treat the real victim as a screwed up psychotic delusional bastard and play right into their sick game. .I feel for the victims on here , his wife, her partners, the children , those they worked with and all the future victims and there will be more victims if the idiots who believe their bullshit and lies don't take a stand and stop supporting them and covering up for them, because i and countless others know the truth as we have been there , have lived it from the inside.

Trev Nelson

3/4/2018 08:59:17 pm

I hear where you’re coming from. The only thing worse than a male narc is a female narc. They have kids, could be anyone’s, but if you’re not aware of what’s going on, all the cheating and it can take a long time to figure it out cos they are so good at lying, cover-ups and manipulation , , then you accept them as yours. When you do find out and you leave then you get the blame becoming the dead beat dad and wife deserter, she gets the sympathy and the kids. You get to keep paying support for them for years cos you don’t have the heart to ask for DNA testing, cos you know what it will do to the kids and I prefer not to know anyway, to them I am the only Dad they have known. The female narc knows this and uses it against you. The only ones who know the truth are you and her, others assume to know and always side with the poor deserted wife. You can say what you like, tell the truth, but no one believes you. So you keep your mouth shut and take the flack. So like you say, buddy, if those around you can’t be bothered to get the truth and accept it then they should stay out of it.... Saw on this site that she pulled the same thing but the guy got a DNA test done, showed the kid wasn’t his and she knew it. What a way for the kid to find out, must have been emotionally damaging for her and for her “ Dad”. But narcs don’t care, they feel no guilt or shame. I would guess she pushed him too far with child support and he snapped, narcs are greedy as well and will push you to the edge to get what they want. Its gets easier over time buddy and the kids are not stupid, they work out what’s going on as they get older, mine did, they have nothing to do with their mom cos they know what she is and what she does to get what she wants, as far as being my biological kids goes, they don’t care and don’t want to know, I’m just Dad. .
The other side is, the male narc fathers kids then pisses off and leaves them, pays no child support and ignores them for life, to him they don’t exist. Or he picks a target with kids, manipulates them into thinking he’s gods gift to fatherhood, emotionally damages them when he takes off for the next and better target. Lying scum of the earth, both male and female narcs. You related to, know, or work with a narc then watch your back cos you mean nothing to them other than as a means to feather their own nest. As for ever getting an apology, forget it, cos they have done nothing wrong, everybody else has, including you.

Judith Barker

3/5/2018 11:24:36 am

I have been in therapy for almost 2 years after a 5 year relationship with a narcissist. Even though my therapist kept telling me I was not alone in this, others have been through the same or worse with narcissists, it took reading the journal entry on the new page section to make me realise that she was right. It could have been written by me. Who knew there were people like this, lies, deception, manipulation, thats how they live and survive. So then I read the rest of the site. I no longer feel quite so alone and like damaged goods. . Like the lady in this site i too found out the hard way and thought i was going crazy. Her thoughts and how she felt and how she got through this has prompted me to write a journal of my thoughts and his actions and the damage it caused . .
I hope others find this site , reading everything about narcissists is helpful in the technical sense but to actually read the true story of love, betrayal, abuse ,manipulation the damage it caused and the steps taken to repair the emotional , physical and financial damage, has given it a more human aspect as it helps to know it wasn’t us, that we are not alone in this, we are normal people who trust, care, love and expect others to be the same , its them, they are not normal. They take advantage of the normalness of us, they use it to lie, cheat, steal and use our belief in love to lull us into a false sense of trust. . You have my email and if you would like to contact me to chat more I would really like that.
In my scanning the internet looking for information on Narcissists I found this quote very helpful in realising they are not normal or more intelligent than us, just more devious and without a conscience. .
"We tend to give the narcissist / sociopath’s machinations more importance than they have. We imagine their ploys require “intelligence”. – They seem to be doing things that need masterminding because they’re doing things we’d never think of doing or dare to do.
But when there is no concern for other people, no sense of responsibility, or obligation to society, family, friends, humanity, or any living being other than self – allowing one to carry out any action to gain a desire – is that intelligence? Or is it simply the “freedom” of not caring?"
~ Jennifer Smith. FreedomFromNarcissisticAndEmotionalAbuse.

Bryce Milson

3/8/2018 11:49:05 pm

I also found this site of help; it explains a lot of the secrecy surrounding them and exposes the lies and manipulation, not only with those concerned on this site but all narcissists. After you put it together with the official technical and medical sites, if you can’t see the repeating patterns then you deserve to be used by them. .Stay strong and keep fighting. 

Marian Lightfoote

3/5/2018 01:57:07 pm

Part of an article , to long to post all , to read in full go to https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/02/why-do-people-believe-narcissists-rather-than-their-victims/?utm_
Why do people believe the narcissists rather than their victims. February 24th 2018
It’s a head-scratcher and perhaps you’ve been here before. You gain insight into who the narcissist really is, but because narcissists have enablers that work on their behalf, carrying out their dirty work for them and ensuring that no one sees that the emperor has no clothes, it’s a predicament for anyone who has tried to navigate the sinister workings of a world designed to serve these manipulators.
The chameleon-like narcissist shows multiple faces to the public, each one more duplicitous than the last. They blend in easily to any social groups they are a part of. But there is one catch: there is usually a target they like to zoom in on, usually because they possess the perceived qualities of empathy, compassion, integrity and coveted resources. Narcissists are pathologically envious of anyone who dares to outshine them or steal the spotlight: whoever presents a threat must be extinguished. Their light must be dimmed, in only the covert fashion the narcissist knows how to employ.
Unfortunately for that target, he or she will eventually become privy to the true self behind the narcissist’s mask. This is a terrifying, yet revealing experience that both alienates and enlightens the victim. This form of covert abuse can take place in romantic relationships, familial relationships, the workplace, even within law enforcement. It can take place in any context where a narcissistic person is able to manipulate someone else.
So how and why does the narcissist get away with it? There are several reasons which I explore below:
Impression management.
The truth is that narcissists are very adept at impression management – in managing the ways others perceive them. They will appear to praise their victims in public, all while criticizing and demeaning them in private. They will provoke their victims into emotionally reacting – and they will use their reactions to the abuse to depict them as “unhinged.” This is the way they both simultaneously isolate and covertly abuse their loved ones behind closed doors – all while making their victims look like the abusers, to their social networks and to society as a whole.
Moreover, narcissists know how to build a stellar reputation. They will defer to those they know have more power than them (at least momentarily, in order to find out how to manipulate them), but they will also hunt the seemingly powerless on the down-low. They will appear to be conscientious about the feelings and ideas of others, when in reality, they are gathering intel as to who is vital for their agenda and who must be diminished so they can take the throne. They are collecting information to see which weak spots they can exploit, and even which strengths they can use against the victim to make their target feel most powerless.
Emotional predators are constantly reassessing who is useful to them and who is a threat. Those who present a threat to the narcissist (whether due to their talents, their education level, their competence, success, appearance or a number of different qualities) will at first be subjected to starry-eyed admiration and heaps of praise before they are devalued.
A high and mighty pedestal will be built for their victims, just for the purpose of being destroyed. The narcissist needs to stage this cycle in order to derive their sense of power. Being able to keep their victims off-balance, never knowing their place in the narcissist’s life, is crucial for them to inflict the maximum amount of pain. So the chosen victims will go through a cycle of idealization and devaluation, pitted and triangulated with other members of their harem until they are discarded ..
Those who are useful to the narcissist will be placed in a perpetual idealization phase until the time comes for them, too, to be kicked off the pedestal. In a narcissist’s labyrinth of lies and mind games, no one truly “wins”. Bear in mind that there are just as many female narcissists as males.

Alex Jackson

3/8/2018 03:25:31 am

Well, this just confirms what we all suspected; it doesn’t take much to figure out who calls the shots with these two. Hopefully this article will show a few very gullible people where the truth lies.
CAN TWO NARCISSISTS EVER BE IN A RELATIONSHIP? I've gotten this question a lot of times. Yes, they can, because they easily recognize and understand each other and work together for common goals...its mutual exploitation, not love, since an N doesn't really love. Fidelity is often not a part of these relationships and lying is accepted as the norm. Their relationship can last for a long time as it’s easier for two to get away with what they do by backing each other up, or can be of a short duration depending on the circumstances that brought them together and what is holding them together. , There is no love involved and that is a fact, although both will pretend to outsiders and in the early stages to each other that they are soul mates and so in love and in most cases, that they have done nothing wrong to be together if one or both were responsible for cheating on a partner or spouse they were with at the time but it’s just a necessity to keep the illusion going to those around them and each other and both will cheat on and lie to each other during their relationship. Eventually one will find someone better or who has more to give and will blame the other for ruining the relationship with their cheating and lies but leaves out that they were doing the same thing. , it simply depends on who gets there first.
Sometimes you will find two narcissists working together to con someone. They may be friends, co workers or even a couple. They feel comfortable with each other because they both lack morals, character and empathy. Make no mistake thought, one of them is calling the shots and abusing and manipulating the other, while the weaker of the two knows they are being used, manipulated and degraded and tries even harder to be as devious as the master in this twosome. Neither of them really like or care about each other but they feel smart, secure and safe in their twisted little world. It’s better to have the devil at your back than coming after you.
“ Freedom from narcissistic abuse.”

Lauren Morrison

3/9/2018 12:02:59 am

I am pretty sure that most people have already worked this out. They are both narcissists, both pathological liars, both never do anything wrong, always blame others and are always and I do mean always, the victim. And that article is spot on where it says they have to stay together for necessity , they have cried about their innocence in all this so much, “ it wasn’t meant to happen”, it wasn’t a deliberate act”, “ we just met and developed feelings for each other”, “ his marriage was over”, “ his wife treated him badly”, ect ect ect. They both knew exactly what they were doing. They pulled the same things at different places they worked, everyone else was to blame for everything that went wrong, they were victimised, lied about and had to quit and then she blamed the men in her life for using and mistreating her when we all know she was the user. , so the poor hurt, misunderstood pair found solace and love with each other. Considering they both left out a lot, for example, the lies to his wife, the sneaking around, the adultery, the emotional abuse, financial abuse and the list goes on. So, to make the fairy tales , the lies seem real and them innocent , they have to stick together, well, at least until one of them can come up with a believable excuse to ditch the other. Still, it’s a good article like all the articles posted on here, very informative also very true.

Max Rosenburg

3/8/2018 11:46:47 pm

Nice thought but there will always be those who can’t see the woods for the trees. Eventually they too will see and feel what it’s like to be treated like garbage and discarded, until then you’re wasting your time. I have to agree, that article is spot on.

Jess Franklin

3/9/2018 03:23:20 pm

. Remind you of anyone you know?. If so then you have been a victim, witnessed or taken part in one or all of these.
Silent Bystanders or Apaths use a variety of excuses not to "get involved." Leaving the target to fend for her or him self against a cruel monster, who is STILL hell bent to destroy his target.

Nobody holds the wrongdoer accountable, even normal peer pressure to "do right" is completely absent.

A variety of excuses is used to justify showing no compassion for the victim of abuse:.. Not my problem, nothing to do with me, or because they know that by standing up to the narcissist they will be the next victim...
Faye Armitage
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Toxic Amnesia
A term that describes how the narcissist pretends to not remember hurtful behaviour, verbal and or emotional abuse, betrayals, and anything else they have done to cause distress and suffering. It’s part of their gaslighting campaign to and designed to make you feel your over reacting and mentally unstable. Creating doubt in your mind and thereby enhancing your symptoms of cognitive dissonance.
The war at home if only somebody knew / facebook
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Feigning innocence and playing dumb.
The narcissistic manipulator tries to convince you that any harm they did was unintentional or that they really didn’t do something they were accused of.
Sometimes the tactic can be as subtle as a look of surprise or a look of indignation on their face when they are confronted on an issue. That look is meant to confuse you and have you second guessing whether or not you are justified in calling them out on this issue or if they are innocent of any wrong doing.
But don’t be fooled by that look of hurt innocence, beneath it is a smirk of triumph because they can see the doubt on your face and know you won’t take it any further. . .
Narcissists believe they are superior to others. They consider themselves to be above the law and the conventions of society and deeply resent any limitations put on them. They feel they have the right and authority to engage in behaviour that others view as socially unacceptable or socially undesirable to achieve what they perceive as their right to obtain. A narcissist is never wrong and never does wrong in their mind and view of the world.
Narcissists will take advantage of kind hearted people and have the uncanny knack of pushing good people to their very limit. Decent good compassionate people have a breaking point and when the narcissist succeeds as they always do, they sit back and watch as you crack under the pressure of abuse and torment, playing the innocent for the outside world to see. You have been deeply hurt, isolated and misunderstood by those on the outside who only see the narcissist’s face of innocence and your reaction. This is what the narcissist wants; your reaction will deflect attention away from the narcissist’s abusive and destroying behaviour. They will act dejected and hurt and point out your crazy and unwarranted behaviour. Yes, they have it all worked out. After all, they have practiced this form of manipulation time and time again and got away with it. Watch their actions and pay no attention to their words
From::: Narcissistic and emotional abuse / shattering the illusion.
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Matt Reed

3/9/2018 10:28:17 pm

Ok, So we all know what they are like, what they do, how they suck you in, etc etc etc.how your going to react, how far they can push you, how easy it is to manipulate you , that they straight out lie, never accept blame and most importantly are never wrong and always the one being victimized. If by now you haven’t decoded the truth from the lies you never will and honestly, you deserve what eventually is going to be your fate, another victim, at least you have been warned, most are not. Being kept update as to where they are and what they are doing will be of help so keep it going. Forewarned is forearmed. .,
Lack of empathy is a quintessential hallmark of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. They simply do not care about thoughts and feelings of others, especially if they conflict with their own. Do not expect them to listen, validate, understand, or support you.
It is important to understand that narcissists can “fake it” when it benefits their agenda. Beside the need to look “normal” and magnanimous, they also expect to get something back. Faux empathy stems from a number of things. A need to fit in, socially–to appear like a feeling, caring person is certainly one of them. It’s an acquired social skill, albeit a superficial one. Like learning which utensil to use when dining in polite company. In other cases, it’s a means to getting what you want from people.
This lack of empathy is so alien to us (after all, even some animals show evidence of empathy) that obvious incidents can break through our denial. It may leave us outraged, hurt or feeling betrayed. It can also be an eye-opener that we need to acknowledge the significant limitations of individuals with NPD. As painful as it can be, coming to terms with their lack of empathy toward us dissipates the confusion caused by their cycle of “push-pull”
The narcissist (especially ‘high-level narcissists’ who are very successful in the world) is skilled at faux empathy or what some call pseudo-empathy. “The socially gifted narcissist is an expert at convincing others that he/she cares deeply about them. Pseudo empathy is exquisitely designed by the narcissist to manipulate others so they will fulfill his narcissistic needs.” (Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D., Ezine article).
The narcissist is always filtering his / her world, honing in on ways to fill his / her need for Narcissistic Supply including his / her need for money, power, adulation, praise, and attention. He / she seeks intelligent, highly motivated people that he / she can delegate most of the work to and then turn around and take the whole credit themselves. In their personal life, the narcissist is attracted to a partner(s) who enhances his image of perfection, self-entitlement, money , social standing and power. These partners are emotionally pliable and mesmerized by their wiles and charm.
The narcissist ensnares their victims by appealing to their needs which include: to be wanted, to be cared for, and to feel valuable, attractive or powerful. When a narcissist turns on their well practiced fake empathy, the unsuspecting and vulnerable victim feels singled out as a Very Special Person . Many of the narcissist’s followers and victims never see through his / her phoniness. They continue to be selfless servants, unable to psychologically or physically separate themselves from them. Those who do become aware of the price they are paying (giving up their own lives and needs), either leave or make the Faustian bargain i.e., decide that the lifestyle and perks connected with being a part of the narcissist’s world are worth it.
References: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201201/lack-empathy-the-most-telling-narcissistic-trait

Hayley Miller

3/10/2018 02:21:01 pm

If you for one minute think they care about you then think again.
If you think for one minute that they are going to change and develop a conscience then you are really very wrong and naive.
If you think for one minute that you are going to heal all the abuse they suffered at the hands of their last partner or partners that the love they have for you is so great that this time it will be different, and then you’re living in a fantasy that will soon turn into a nightmare.
They don’t see you as a person with feelings, they only see you for how you fit into what they want and what they want to be at that time to mirror the perception of what you want in them.
They really don’t care one little bit or even think of the damage they will inflict on you and how it will affect you, they only care about how it will affect them, will they get what they want? Will they get away with it? will others believe them over you?. Have they destroyed you in mind, body and spirit sufficiently that you can’t ever come back and expose the truth about them.
It’s not a mental illness or a personality disorder. They are very sane and cunning and have no personality to start with, they mirror the personality you want, they take on the persona you want in a friend or lover, they become what you want, and to different people they are different people that’s how they get away with it. Everyone they come in contact with sees what they want to see and what the narcissist wants you to see... They look like a human being, they walk and talk like us, they feel physical pain and bleed like us but inside they are nothing like us, they are a empty space, devoid of emotions and conscience. They fill that empty space with what they see in us, with what every person they come in contact with wants them to be to them. They give us back our own emotions, our own desires, wants and needs as their own. In other words they mirror you. .
A better name for them is narcissist vampires or narcissistic parasites of the soul and of emotions, who will suck you dry of everything you have, emotions, possessions, money with their lies, abuse and manipulations, then when you are completely drained of everything you can supply them with, you are discarded as so much trash without a second thought and they move on to the next supplier.
Exposing them for what they really are is the only way to stop them and prevent other innocent caring people from going through what you have. Don’t let the lies they tell about you stop you from telling the truth about them., . ,

Marian Lightfoote

3/10/2018 03:27:31 pm

The power of positive thinking workshop.

How to identify a toxic narcissist.
They are controlling,
They have to have everything their way. The only agenda they are about is their own. They don’t take NO for an answer unless they are manipulating you or it will ultimately suit their purpose, then they will give in but won’t forget the slight and ultimately get whatever it was anyway by working on you with subtle and sly methods. . .
They are never wrong.
Even with evidence to the contrary, they will never admit to being wrong. Unless it suits their agenda for now. They may give an apology but only if it suits them to keep you on side. .It is not real, their enormous egos will not permit them to be wrong and admit it.
They are draining.
After dealing with them you are left feeling confused and drained, wondering what just happened. Extremely selfish people are like vampires, they suck the life force, the emotions and ideas right out of you.
They are deceptive.
They come in the guise of being helpful and caring; they may even be helpful in the beginning. But don’t be fooled as it always comes at a cost. They love having their egos stroked and told what great people they are in everything they do from being a friend, a parent, a co worker, a partner or your boss. But if you do one thing they don’t like they will bury you in an instant without a second thought.
They are liars.
They are the most deceptive people you will ever meet. Everything they do, everything they are is set up to deceive and fulfil their purpose.
They are delusional.
They really believe their own lies and their life has been one big lie for so long that to them it’s the truth. They think they are great people, better than you or anyone else, they have this innate ability to fool everyone evens themselves. Which is why they react so hurt, confused and tear up when confronted with the truth, they simply can’t process the fact that they are, were or did something wrong. So therefore you are lying and victimising them and they are innocent of any wrong doing...

Taylah Pierce

3/10/2018 08:26:47 pm

I read this and thought it should be shared.

.It is not my belief that you have to forgive an abuser to heal and move forward with your life. Why? Because I believe that forgiveness cannot be affected without repentance on the abusers part and that is something they will never do. If that kind of vermin wants to profess their innocence to the world , lies about their abhorrent abuse and blames the victim as the abuser, then so be it. They are not worth forgiving; they don’t deserve to be forgiven. They can stew in the cesspit of their own lies and eventually the truth will come out. The only one I will give forgiveness to is myself for believing their lies and trusting them.
So don’t chase people who hurt you. Dont forgive and don’t forget. Be an example to others. Attract people to you on your own merits. Be honest and be yourself. The people who belong in your life will come find you and stay without expecting anything except your friendship or love and that you care for them as they are. They won’t use, abuse, manipulate or hurt you and they wont lie to you or make promises they won’t keep. So just be yourself and do your thing, after what you have been through you will know the difference between a genuine caring honest person and a toxic lying narcissistic abuser. .

Kerri Logan

3/13/2018 12:22:12 am

After reading this it didn’t take much thought to work out what website they were referring to.

Gone Without Warning
To a narcissist ghosting out of a long term relationship or marriage is easy, as they are completely incapable of bonding. Different setting, different likes. It's that simple.
They are highly adaptable to whatever target they focus on, and it can change on a whim. Even when happy 10 year anniversary pictures are posted on one's timeline from just weeks ago, the narcissist already has his sights set elsewhere.
There is never any closure because it unexplainable to humans with empathy. Ghosting is a form of emotional abuse. But the Narcissist can’t or won’t see that, to him or her it’s just over and they owe no explanation or reason. This can be extremely harmful to the one being ghosted as it leaves them confused and searching for answers they never get, to them everything was fine in the relationship, then suddenly without warning the ghoster announces they are leaving usually with some reason that makes no sense and the partner is left wondering what the hell happened. Finding out later that he or she is with a new partner and has been grooming the new partner, their family and friends with stories of how badly he or she has been treated for weeks or months, knowing full well its simply untrue and has been covering up the lies and infidelity to the current partner by acting as if everything is fine and continuing to have an intimate and loving relationship with them as well as the new partner in the making. This is deception and emotional abuse in its most devious form and is designed to inflict the most damage as possible to blindside their partner as to what is actually going on, a common trait of the Narcissist.
A case in point is a recent website that was brought to my attention about a particular Narcissist who it has been proven has done this twice to spouses and in all probability to others to a lesser degree, i.e. did not marry them. This story also has had the added benefit of exposing his choice of latest partner as having a past of similar behaviour. “ Do Narcissists Attract Each Other?” There are several articles available that discuss this subject. This website is a classic example of Narcissistic abuse, both emotional and financial that it is worth using as an example in future discussions and classes. .

Alex Jackson

3/13/2018 02:43:05 pm

They sure got that right. I know this site has made its way around the world and several official sites on narcissism and therapy groups have asked permission to use it as a reference.
So as far as narcissists wanting recognition and notoriety goes they got it but not in the way they wanted.
I have included the following to add to what you posted. It gives a bit more clarity and understanding.

A narcissist can be a great storyteller. They captivate you with tales of personal triumphs, heroism, even selflessness. How they have been used and abused, taken advantage of, lied about and been victimized by everyone in their past from parents, siblings, family, friends, partners, spouses and employers. How wonderful it is to finally have found someone who genuinely cares about them, etc etc etc. But it’s when you look behind the curtain that you discover they’ve rewritten history. Not only are they living in a fantasy, but you believed all their self-mythology.

Narcissists are overly occupied with themselves. They exaggerate their achievements and use clever tactics to make themselves feel superior. Ever entitled, they tend to manipulate and exploit others, then rationalize their actions to shirk responsibility or blame. If a narcissist isn’t currently being praised, given sympathy and support, they are planning or waiting for the next moment when they will be.

https://psychcentral.com/.../separating-the-narcissists.../

Max Rosenburg

3/13/2018 01:35:05 pm

I have been around for a long time and have seen far too often bad things happen to good people. This is by far one of the worst. Deliberate emotional abuse that almost cost a life and left the victim with permanent medical issues both physical and emotional. The destruction of two children’s lives and futures, children who already had severe emotional trauma to contend with. This was set up from the beginning, carried out with lies, deception, theft, false promises and precision to gain an objective, then covered up with lies, deception, cheating and a false plea for sympathy and support. Once the objective had been gained, this person walked away without any regard or concern for the welfare of any of them leaving them in an emotional and financial mess. . He obtained what he wanted so that was that, no feelings of guilt, responsibility or shame. The other person who played a part in this is not much better, they knew what was going on, what they were doing, but their own selfish needs to prove something and get a man came before any thought of the consequences and damage caused and what the truth was.
What really pisses me off is that our archaic laws let those like this get away with it. If it’s not physical abuse then it’s not criminal. And there are still those who fawn at their feet, hang on every word they utter and give them support and help.
Any decent, honest, caring person would tell them to go to hell.
Any decent, honest, caring person would not have done this in the first place.
A good way to see the truth and understand just how much damage was caused is to put yourself or someone you care about in place of the victims and ask yourself how would you or they feel, how this would have impacted on your or their life. Bit of a sobering thought, right?.

Karen Matthews

3/14/2018 08:21:20 pm

From what we know it certainly was a deliberate and premeditated plan to get what he wanted and she played her part towards the end. Take heart in the fact that if not her it could have been any of the others he had lined up and again from what we know, there were two or three, the same applies to him, he was her back up plan. So no genuine feeling between them that’s for sure, just straight out who can give the most. That rant from her young daughter shocked a few people and made them wonder just what was going on and caused a few to take a closer look and they didn’t like what they saw. . He really is a piece of work and about as trustworthy and honest as a shit house rat, she’s not much better. So let them stew in the mess of lies they have concocted, they deserve each other. At least they are leaving others alone. Your right about some people fawning at their feet but I think you will find that for a variety of reasons some of them have no choice at the moment. They might agree with them and back them up, give them sympathy and all that but behind the scenes they believe and trust them as much as they would a snake and once whatever it is they have on them can be made null and void they will ignore them and get as far away as they can. Plus there are a few who know what they are capable of doing and at the moment its easier and safer to stay in their good books, so don’t be too hard on the fawners, some have no choice but do know the truth. They have both done some really terrible, destructive things to others and more and more around them are seeing that, neither of them could ever repair what they have done, not that they would try. They will stick to their lies and stories of innocence but the majority simply don’t fall for it now. The bottom line is... don’t trust them in anything, don’t believe a word they say, and stay as far away from them as possible. .They are both toxic and poison everything and everyone around them if you’re not aware of the truth about them. There are a lot out there who are grateful for this site, as hard as it was for some to admit it, its all true and correct. So keep warning everyone about them, less chance they will be able to do this again that way..

Jesse Franklin

3/16/2018 01:57:28 am

Thanks to everyone for being patient while I’m off the grid, it’s taken longer than expected to get back on my feet but all going well I should be up and if not running at least walking slowly soon. Emails should all be answered in the next week. Thanks to Marian and AJ for stepping in keeping me up to date and helping Di manage the site; we have both made some great friends thanks to the site.
Also thanks for the recent comments posted and one in particular is right, by Max, “Good people have bad things happen to them,” that’s why it happens, because they are good people and expect others to be honest and decent as well and because narcissists know they are good people and easy to fool.. We have all learnt a lot about Narcissists and from the comments from all parts of the world it has been shown that they exist everywhere, they are nothing new. . They are very real, as is the damage and destruction, emotional, physical and financial they cause, it’s not just some vendetta from a disgruntled ex spouse, partner, friend, family member, boss or work mate. The only way to stop a narcissist is to expose them and hopefully this site has done just that. From the private stories we have been told as well as the comments posted, a lot of people now see the truth and that’s a good thing.
Parts of this site, stories, comments, examples etc have been used on other sites and in publications that focus on narcissists, every bit to expose the true face behind the mask, the lies manipulation and abuse helps.
I have included a statement made by a highly respected and well known business man and published in a magazine that is distributed worldwide which shows just how aware people are of narcissists and that they are real. So take notice, and take care.
Thanks guys..
"Narcissists tire of their victims when they've exhausted their supply of care, money, or whatever else they were after. As quickly as they entered your life, they leave it, which can leave the victim incredibly confused, broken, and lost. "
~ Lindsay Dodgson, Business Insider, March 7, 2018

Susan Taylor- Jones

3/16/2018 05:12:52 pm

When high profile people stand up and say enough is enough and acknowledge that narcissistic abuse is real then it give credence to what other more average people say.
He is without a doubt a full on narcissist, his actions with not only both his previous wives proves that but his actions with so many others over the years from family and friends to co workers and others he has had business dealing with and who have been screwed over and left out to dry is something that simply cannot be dismissed as being untrue. If there is still one person out there who does not believe that he set up, used, emotionally abused, financially ruined and also deliberately tried to cause the death of wife number two and destroyed the lives of those boys with his emotional abuse and abandonment, then they really deserve what he will eventually do to them. The evidence is so overwhelming, backed up with legal documents, emails from him, and the stories of others. Then let’s not forget that he had her to help him give the final blow, so she is no better than him as her past actions show. No one and I mean no one, can keep up the lies and cover-ups of their affair and all the manipulation that went with it for so long and not know exactly what they were doing and what the results would be, no one that is who is a decent, honest person, that in itself is damning as far as their protests of innocent goes. No, they knew exactly what they were doing and didn’t care for one minute who would get hurt as long as they got what they wanted and came out looking like the innocent injured party and his wife as the neurotic vindictive abuser. Unfortunately for them, this time they picked the wrong person who stood up and fought back, exposing them both for whom and what they really are.
Another case of manipulation and screwing people over is his engine he is still trying to get produced, Who did all the design work?, it wasn’t him yet he takes credit for it, did the real designer ever get paid for his work or given any credit for it?. No... Who came up with the ideas to overcome some of the flaws in it?, it wasn’t him.. Have they been given any credit for the part they played?. No.. How many people have suffered emotionally and financially over the years because of this engine?. Quite a lot I believe. So he is not the genius he makes out to be. Typical narcissistic behaviour, “Look at me, look what I have made all by myself, aren’t I just so great”.
It has been pointed out so many times by so many people that every narcissist is a con artist. And that is the truth.
Once you get the red flags that someone is a narcissist, you need to step back and proceed with caution as they will not be able to be loyal to you, they will not be reliable, they will not be honest as they don’t have the emotions to form a real bond with you, they will pretend they have but that’s just for show and to get you on side. They will drop you for someone else in a heartbeat whether your relationship is romantic or platonic, opposite sex or same sex, professional or business related and it can be for reasons as petty as physical attraction, they have gained everything you had to give, they found someone who has more or who strokes their ego. They are much like dogs who go to the person who has the yummy treats, and if the person they are with has no treats left then they are simply abandoned.. They feel zero remorse and can’t comprehend that what they did was wrong, after all, they were just getting treats and you had none left to give..
There entire focus is on GETTING and getting what they desire, what makes them FEEL GOOD.
They DO NOT care that their actions affect you, hurt you, cause you real problems, leave you financially compromised, cause you pain, wreck other areas of your life, damage your family , you’re standing in the community or business sector. They DONT EVEN LOOK AT THAT, it’s not important, it doesn’t affect them. The details of other people’s lives doesn’t concern them , ( UNLESS they are currently fixated on that person as a source of supply),Actually paying attention to others who are of no use to them means only one thing to the narcissist, having to take time and energy away from themselves and what they want.

Marian Lightfoote

3/19/2018 10:45:15 pm

Part of a very interesting article. Sound familiar?
Psychological Murder: Death By Covert Abuse
Updated on March 19, 2018
Pernicious Abuse
It goes unrecognized but it exists.
It exists on an extremely covert level.
It happens behind the scenes without anyone even being aware of what the problem is; the real problem.
No evidence of it is left behind and no-one has ever been convicted of it yet in reality, what I will term pernicious abuse is something which can and does have a devastating effect, not just on the victim, but also within society. Pernicious abuse can lead a person into carrying out acts such as covert psychological murder, or perhaps even covert psychological manslaughter - something which is very real, insidious in nature but unfortunately unrecognized and virtually unquestioned.
Psychological murder can take many forms but the type I'm really referring to is of a covertly narcissistic and/or sociopathic nature. It may be too difficult for some people to be able to comprehend but it does happen and I've seen it happen.
Narcissistic/Sociopathic (narcopathic) abuse takes place when a narcissist or sociopath (or narcopath) attempts to convince someone who has discovered their unbelievably shallow secrets, gradually over time, that they are crazy and proceeds to manipulate them into keeping quiet.. They use techniques such as crazy-making, character assassination and gaslighting in order to get their victim(s) to question their own sanity.
They generally do so by ostracizing the victim while continuing to act out their part, expertly hiding their truly outrageous behaviour, whilst successfully having everyone around them fooled - everything is done to appease those around them while their manipulative and controlling tactics take place behind the scenes, outside of people's awareness. The victim is forced to question their own sanity because they don't realize that they are the victim because everything done to manipulate them is done outside of their conscious awareness.
The abuser, when carrying out these covert tasks, is faceless and undercover.
Narcopathic Abuse
Victims of this type of abuse are commonly left with no resources they can use to escape the situation; the abuser has stolen their finances, their identity and due to the malicious web of lies and deceit that have been woven the victim believes the abuser. The victim is trapped with no way out other than what the abuser tells them... or at least that is what they are made to believe.
Although victims go through what can only be described as being dragged through hell backwards, narcissistic and sociopathic abuse via heightened communication is so difficult to pick up on the human radar of perception that the victim is usually left scratching their head wondering "is it me?"
They have been made to believe that they are the problem. Such abusers are so shallow that they will cheat on their partner - at times when the victim will least expect it.
Not only that, they will do it with the person the victim suspects the least.... time and time again.
Psychological Murder
The abuser never quits abusing and the victim's self-esteem gets worn down to the core until they go through a process of devaluation, dehumanization and dissociation. The victim has been made to feel that they are nothing in this world, they now have nothing, they now have no meaning and nowhere to go and nobody wants them any more except for the narcissistic/sociopathic abuser who can now use the victim as their emotional/mental slave. The process is so subliminal and it happens so gradually Eventually the victim may be left feeling suicidal but fear that others would see it as a selfish act. Additionally, they don't want others to be left picking up the pieces they left behind because they do feel real true genuine empathy. For this reason many victims believe they have no choice but to continue suffering the abuse and may feel that the damage is already done.
Ultimately, the victim takes the knowledge of their covert psychological murder to the grave which forever remains a secret inside the mind of the abuser.
• Marc Hubs is the author of Know Your Enemy: Reflections Of NPD

Helen Turner

3/20/2018 02:40:32 am

After keeping up with this site over the past couple of years and adding the occasional comment, I really don’t know what else to say other than I agree with everything said. I have followed sites on narcissism from all over the world and the stories are practically the same, so much so that there has to be truth in it, especially when you get well known people saying it. I have heard so many stories from those close to them to dismiss what they say as being untrue.. . . I have included a few examples of some of them and one in particular I’m sure refers to them but as they don’t use names it’s a very big coincidence that some other woman has gone through exactly what this lady has. Stories and quotes supplied by several official narcissistic websites. With thanks to the following.
“ Narcissistic and emotional abuse.com”
“ psycopathfree.com”
“ stopthenarcissistsnow.com”
“ the war at home- if only somebody knew”
Narcissists rush into relationships and will try to convince you to move in with them or even marry them within weeks or months of meeting them. They have to hook you and reel you in fast before you get a chance to see who and what they really are.
A narcissist will never admit to what they are or ever change, it’s against their nature. They will never admit to any wrong doing in anything, if they do ever apologise for anything it’s because they have no choice, but they do not mean a word of it, it’s simply to get you to forget whatever it was they were caught out in, but be assured you will suffer for the slight you gave them sooner or later, they won’t forget it.
In reading the contents of a new website, { link to it available on request} you can see the pattern of his past, both in his romantic relationships and in his employment history. You don’t have to be a genius to connect the dots . In exposing him it also exposed her and a classic narcissist come back is the damage she caused to the relationship with the family of the father of her oldest daughter with the lies she told about him, he said, no, to her so she made sure he suffered. No one slights a narcissist and gets away with it. The worst part in all this is that they are believed over the victim, Why? Because they come across as such nice people who would never do something so terrible and are so convincing as the person who is the real victim and all the suffering they have had to endure.
A narcissist is a user and a con man or woman, that is a fact.
Dealing with a narcissist is exhausting both mentally and physically, they don’t care how it affects you, only how it affects them. They think only of themselves. Truth is whatever they can get away with. Most people don’t even know what a narcissist is let alone how to deal with one. A narcissist simply walks away from the destruction they cause without a second thought as to who has been hurt and they are sneaky enough to come out of the situation looking like the good one and victim and they have their minions who cover for them and back them up. They are experts at fooling people especially the minions they groom to give them the face of being normal. When dealing with a narcissist you have to keep in mind just how dangerous they are, they will lie, cheat, steal, even if they don’t have to , it’s the way they work, they don’t care about you , to them you are simply an object to use to get what they want.
Narcissists will destroy your life with lies before you can destroy theirs with truth.
Friendship and love is not about supporting your friends or someone you love even when you know they are wrong, have done wrong or have used and hurt someone to gain something. That’s not friendship or love, its being an accomplice, an enabler. Narcissists surround themselves with them; they groom them with promises of gain, sympathy, support and fake love.
Friendship and loving someone is having the courage to tell them to grow up and stop being an ass before they ruin someone’s life, not telling them they were right to do it.

Diane Robertson

3/20/2018 01:58:52 pm

Found this on another site, felt it was worth sharing along with a few of the comments. By sharing statements from other sites it shows just how true all this is and might help in stopping them if they are exposed. It can’t hurt that’s for sure and just might do some good by waking a few people up to the fact that they are being used.
.

“ The narcissist has mastered the art of deception. Although their intentions may initially appear to be honest and sincere their ultimate goal is to deceive , exploit and manipulate. Whatever the relationship with the narcissist, be it parent, spouse, partner, sibling, child, friend, or co-worker, this relationship is unbalanced from the beginning.. Their aim is to, by any devious means necessary , gain control of your mind ,thoughts and feelings, resulting in you becoming a willing participant in their schemes. How can such a connection not be doomed from the beginning?. With you being discarded and blamed once their goal is achieved and them walking away as the innocent bystander..”
Anne McCrea
From Narcissistic and Emotional Abuse/ Shattering the Illusion.

Top of Form
Sharon Diedrich . I was so deceived..she knew exactly how to manipulate and use me, total deception and the people in her life, they have no clue of what she is doing to them, behind their backs, she has cheated on her husband and kids, and they have no clue, she has been disrespectful to some of her family and some friends behind their backs, none of them have no clue, that is what narcs do, either to your face or behind your back..
.
Amy Prestwood . 😫 It's easy to see, once you know. But so hard to have to sit back and watch them do it to people you love.

Christina Bolender . Very true. I see it now that I'm not close to her.

Dee Rez . Very accurate...on all levels...boy oh boy what lessons have been learned

Larry Cork . I was fooled for many years, now I am beginning to recognize the signs

Teresa Gattuso . It's devastating to watch it done to innocent children

Cissy Lukats . It is total dysfunction with these predators , from day one , they have their game on , you are just being the loving kind soul you are , these two people cannot exist together , it is why divorce , is our day of freedom , from hell , & once again they are a lone , to repeat game day .
Jane Jackvony . So true!!!!! Hmmmmmm

Dean Taylor . Well true 👎

Top comments is selected, so some comments may have been filtered out.

Angie Mitchell

3/20/2018 11:18:43 pm

Interesting observations from other websites from different countries.
Everything below is exactly what they have done and how they have acted. But written by those who do not know them or about them. So similar as not to be the truth.

“They called me jealous for calling them out on their bullshit , lies and abuse.
They turned it around to blame me for their neurotic insecurities and guilt.
Bless their delusional little hearts. “
Anne McCrea
NarcissisticAndEmotionalAbuse.com
“ITS OBVIOUS THAT NARCISSISTS KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SNEAKY ABOUT IT. SOME PEOPLE MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM SAYING THAT THEY HAVE AN ILLNESS OR THAT THEY CANT HELP THEMSELVES HURTING OTHERS OR THAT THEY HAVE BEEN USED AND ABUSED THEMSELVES IN THE PAST SO THEY GET IN FIRST. .BUT I CAN SEE HOW THEY SLITHER AROUND UNDER THE RADAR WHILE CONNING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HEARTS AND WALLETS. “
Yvonne Clerebout. Stopthenarcissistsnow.com
“ NARCISSISTIC ABUSE IS WHERE THE VICTIM GETS PUNISHED AND THE ABUSER GETS REWARDED.”
“Thewarathome-ifonlysomeoneknew”
“ WHEN DIVORCING A NARCISSIST , HE COMPLETELY DISMISSES ALL AND ANY OF YOUR NEEDS AND ALL THE YEARS OF LOVE, DEVOTION AND SUPPORT YOU GAVE HIM, FOR THE NARCISSIST IT IS ALL GONE LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED. HE WILL UNDERMINE YOU WITH MUTUAL FRIENDS, HIS FAMILY , YOUR FAMILY, CO-WORKERS AND HIS LATEST CONQUEST AND HER FAMILY AND FRIENDS, WHILE STEALING YOUR MONEY ,ASSETTS AND ANYTHING ELSE HE CAN GET HIS HANDS ON, ALL THE WHILE LOOKING SINCERE AND GENEROUS AND GENERATING GOODWILL AND SYMPATHY FROM THOSE AROUND HIM. .”
Author Unknown.
"Narcissism is truly difficult to spot in everyday life because some of the kindest and nicest people could be a narcissist hiding under a facade. Narcissism doesn’t always shine through the moment you meet someone. In fact, narcissism may not fully bloom until you’ve married the person, accepted a job from a company led by a narcissist, work with a narcissist or after many years of knowing the person. In reality, narcissistic personality traits are often hidden by the person’s ability to “act” in ways they know other people like.
They will form cliques around themselves. Narcissists need to feel powerful and in charge,the best way for them to do that is to create a group of people who believe in them, are afraid of them or look up to them in some way.There cliques allow them to maintain some kind of positive reputation and when things go wrong in the narcissists life those in the clique will run to the rescue and defend them. These people should not be called a clique member but rather " Blind Servants".
Tamara Hall. 10 Unbelievable behaviours of a narcissist. . PsychCentral.com

Jesse Franklin

3/21/2018 02:55:50 pm

Part of an email from Keith Phillips to be passed on to Dianne , which it was.
Its worth sharing to show how people feel about all this.

By exposing them you have changed the lives and futures of those they will come in contact with, which in turn changes the lives and future of that contacts family, children, friends and co-workers, this is a good thing as it makes people aware of their true nature and motives, thus leaving it up to them to continue the relationship either personal or professional knowing what they are dealing with. What most people do not understand or the narcissist care about is the fact that the person targeted is not the only victim, the consequences of the narcissists actions has an ongoing affect on those the target is associated with, it simply does not stop at the target. This ripple affect impacts on many people, including children and will continue to spread out, in some cases for many years, damaging the lives of those who initially were not directly involved.
Exposure of them also makes it more difficult for the narcissist to manoeuvre themselves into anyone’s life, either personal or professional, and use manipulation, emotional abuse ,lies and the “ poor me” sympathy card to cover up who and what they really are, what they have done in the past and what they are after.
What you did with this website may have been emotionally draining and extremely difficult for you personally to admit to the world just how foolish and gullible you were and the consequences you faced because of this, that not everyone is who they appear to be and that love, trust and belief in another person should be earned, not given blindly or be swayed with promises of love, commitment, financial gain or be manipulated into any relationship. Your actions have given others the choice and the chance to distance themselves from not only the narcissists this site is about but others who show the same traits that they will encounter in their lives.
So never feel ashamed or guilty for doing so. You stood up when others wouldn’t or couldn’t and said, “ no more, enough is enough”. Be proud of the fact that your courage to do so has prevented another from going through the torment and hell that you have.

Alex Jackson

3/22/2018 07:27:14 pm

Hey Jess, good to see you back. I agree with all this. Di has no reason to feel guilty or ashamed for this, even though they threw the blame back at her with all the lies. She has put up with some really disgusting crap from some people over this but stood her ground, stuck to the truth and didn’t retaliate. “ Her” daughters viral rant is a good example, I know you deleted most of it but I read it all as have a few others, got a dirty mouth on her that’s for sure. Di’s reaction when she found out who she was, was a bit extreme but harmed no one, making you delete over 700 stories and comments from others about them when she realised this child had been used and manipulated and had been really hurt by peoples remarks about her mother and Kings, who she obviously had been conditioned to believe was totally innocent of any wrong doing. I know she felt guilty over her part in causing this child distress , which is why she had you delete it all, a bit to late I think cos the kid had obviously read it all. But I can understand why, she still remembers the damage he caused to her grandsons, with his lies and manipulation and abandonment.
Another point I would like to make is about this engine of his, it was mentioned that he did very little of the design work on it, if any at all, but is taking credit for it all being his own work. I have seen the designs from the start in 2012, they are dated and were sent to him in email attachments by the guy who did do the design work, Di still has copies of them all on a portable hard drive, as well as the first invoice he sent for the fees he was owed, I believe there was a second invoice but I haven’t physically sighted it as yet, the first invoice is for over $40,000.00 AU. I mean this guy is a qualified engine designer and gave up hundreds of hours of his time to work on this expecting to get paid and given credit for the work. I do know that there was no written agreement, just a verbal one as he trusted K Wright to do the right thing, I believe they knew each other slightly from years ago and he never took out any copyrights on the work, again he trusted him on that. So unless he gets on here and confirms it is his work and he didn’t get any payments for it then unfortunately Mr Wright can continue to claim it as his and no one knows the truth... So if you’re reading this, G C , and you have been ripped off, let people know or if you have been compensated for your work and its been credited as yours , let people know, either way it will put an end to the speculation, or at least email Jesse. . There just might be someone who can help you out. A lot of people read this site and a lot of those are keeping an eye on the engine for various reasons.

Jeff Feeney

3/23/2018 02:20:32 pm

Totally agree with all that has been said. If we don’t stand up for ourselves no one else will. The truth may be hard to face but its better than living a lie.
“ WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT AND DIGNITY. TO BE ABLE TO SET BOUNDARIES AS TO WHAT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR IS AND WHAT IS NOT.
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO YOUR OWN OPINIONS AND VALUES AND THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS THESE WITHOUT BEING PUT DOWN BY SOMEOME WHOSE MORAL VALUES ARE SUBSTANDARD TO SAY THE LEAST.
NEVER BE AFRAID TO SAY “ NO”. NEVER FEEL GUILTY FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH. AND NEVER LET ANYONE MAKE YOU FEEL ASHAMED FOR DOING SO. IF SOMETHING OR SOMEONE IS WRONG OR HAS DONE WRONG, THEN SAY SO. THE LIES OF DENIAL THEY SPREAD WILL SOON BE SHOWN AS LIES AND THE TRUTH REVELED..
SOMETIMES WE NEED SOMEONE TO SIMPLY BE THERE, NOT TO FIX ANYTHING OR TO DO ANYTHING IN PATICULAR. BUT JUST TO LET US FEEL WE ARE CARED FOR, APPREICATED, SUPPORTED AND BELIEVED. “
From narcissisticandemotionalabuse.com

Marian Lightfoote.

3/23/2018 08:03:11 pm

Welcome back Jess. I found this very interesting to read , enlightening and fits in with recent comments.

To My Narcissist.
No, I didn't change; I just remembered who I really was. This isn't a temporary phase; I worked hard to find me. I shifted through layer after layer of bullshit, stories and lies I had been told of who I should be and finally came back to who I was, who I always was, who I was always meant to be. You tried to make me into someone I wasn't. You almost succeeded. I will tell the truth to disprove your lies and never cover up for you again. By being me you will never hurt or manipulate me again. You may have caused me to stumble and fall but I am stronger than you gave me credit for. So get used to it or don't, but this is me and I'm not going back , nor will I ever back down when I know I'm right and your wrong.
I don't always get it right but I am now careful who I let into my life, I no longer take people on face value, I look behind the mask they show the world to find out about their past as I have found that all is not what it seems with most people. Everyone has a part of their past they want to hide, I know that I do, but by bringing it out into the open, accepting it happened, knowing you did your best to rectify it, is the only way you can move on with your life without it ever being used against you as its not a secret that's been hidden but a fact that has been acknowledged. I have learnt to spot fake people with fake intentions this way. Those who deny the facts, deny the truth, refuse to take responsibility for their actions, make excuses and blame others are not the sort of people who are welcome in my life. I will never again tolerate those who don't respect my boundaries and who try by coercion, manipulation, lies and false promises to push past them. Now when I say, " No" I mean " NO". There are times when I know that by responding to someone is not in my best interest , that arguing my point simply makes me look bad and the aggressor, so I bite my tongue, stay silent and walk away. But be aware, I will not remain silent when the truth needs to be told, when ignoring it or covering it up makes me a party to someone else's lies.. I may hurt myself in doing so, but better I get hurt in telling the truth than an innocent unwary person gets hurt in believing the lies.
You are a NARCISSIST.. and as such you paint yourself as the victim and innocent in all aspects of your wrong doing, you elicit sympathy where none should be given.. You will be offended by the truth, and do all and everything to discredit and blame your accuser. The more someone argues the point with you the easier it is for you to turn it around so that they look like the aggressor and liar who is victimising you , the innocent , blameless one. So I will say my piece, make my point, present my evidence and walk away. . Cry foul all you want, protest your innocence, blame me and others, get sympathy and support from your blind followers of which I was one once, so I know how they will defend you, but remember one thing....Time has a way of showing a persons true colours and the truth. .... Because we both know that you will do it again, only next time you do, there will now be those who will remember the last time.
Angel . .

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Susan Taylor-Jones

3/24/2018 08:04:19 pm

I couldn’t have said it better myself. We have to learn to stand up for ourselves and others. There are far too many people who do wrong and never accept responsibility for their actions, they just blame someone else and cover up the truth with lies so that they come out looking like the injured party. If we know someone has or is doing the wrong thing , know they are lying, know they are blaming others, know that decent innocent people are being hurt , then instead of ignoring it and walking away with the attitude of its not my problem , we need to step up and say so. By not doing so then we are just as guilty as they are, I call them, “ narcissists by default”. . But unfortunately most people won’t do anything except stand on the side lines and watch. This world has become a very sad place full of, selfish, greedy, uncaring people who are only interested in themselves, how things will affect them and what they can get out of backing the abuser and others misery. . What goes around comes around, there will come a time when they need help and support and no one will be there for them.
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“ Never be bullied into silence. Never look the other way when you see a wrong being committed. Never allow yourself to be made a victim or an accomplice.
Accept no one’s definition of your life.. Define yourself, be yourself.”
Robert Frost.
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In this world we are left to accept our own responsibility for our fate, the glory of our successes as well as the sting of our failures..We learn that the footsteps in the sand behind us are indeed our own. They show us where we have been and what we have done, good or bad. A testament to our own ability to survive anything, that includes owning our own mistakes and learning from them,.. . What we have survived up until now, demonstrates that we are the architects of our own fate.
Lance Sievert.
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Gavin McMahon

3/26/2018 11:00:38 pm

As a wise man said, “A woman shows her worth by standing by a man when he has nothing. A man shows his when he has everything”. So to break it down into understandable language.
When a man is scraping the bottom of the barrel and has nothing, the woman will stand by him, support and encourage him by putting her own needs and wants aside.
When a man has achieved what he wants, has his qualifications and degrees, has climbed the ladder of success , who without the support, belief ,trust and encouragement of the woman would never have made it, he will either acknowledge her support , be grateful for it and treat her with the love, respect and thanks she deserves and has earned , making sure she benefits from his success or he will decide she is worn out, has nothing left to give and no longer required as she does not fit in with his new image and lifestyle, and quickly replace her with a woman who in his mind is more suitable, completely forgetting it was not just his hard work that got him where he is.
After reading all this, talking to others, checking out a few facts, it’s not hard to see who was the worthy one, who stood by who, who gave everything they had to support him, both financially and emotionally and who the unworthy one was who gained what they wanted by lies, deception and manipulation, then moved on to someone who had more to give.
I genuinely feel pity for those who still can’t see the truth , they need to step out of the fantasy world of lies ,deception and proclaimed innocence that you take as being the truth, the support and unwarranted sympathy you have given them , the fake lives that they have woven around themselves and you have been sucked in to, see the real world around them, it’s not a pretty place and give your support and sympathy to those who genuinely deserve it, the ones who you have been manipulated into vilifying and abusing. Based on their lies. ..
“ He will act like you never existed, you never mattered. He will act as if you never were, you will be totally and completely ignored and wiped from his memory.Its amazing how disengaged and indifferent a narcissist can be once he is finished with you. This will trigger all of your insecurities , all your self doubt. The best thing you can do in any stage of recovery is to hang onto yourself, don’t change to fit a pattern the narcissist has convinced you and others that is you. Yes, the narcissist has abandoned you, but don’t abandon yourself.
All throughout this process the narcissist will continue to believe that he is the victim. In fact, the more time that passes, the more his delusional rendition of the relationship sets in. History is completely revised in his psyche, replaced by a complete fabrication of the entire relationship, who you are as a person, that you caused it all, that your lack of support and caring caused him to find solace and sympathy with another, that you were the abusive one, that you are the liar. You will be blamed every step of the way as the cause. To add insult to injury, others will believe him. It’s madding, its soul destroying, the more you struggle to get the truth out, the more you will be painted as the villain and him as the victim.”
Sharie Stines, Psy.D, Divorcing a Narcissist..
The above article also applies to his engine project. Ignore the fact that others put time, effort, their experience and money into it. Ignore the fact that they placed their trust in you to treat them fairly by acknowledging and compensating them for their contribution. . Ignore the fact that you are claiming others hard work, ideas and designs as your own. Ignore the fact that those who did it all for you actually exist. Ignore the fact that during the past 20 years working on it, the only time it makes progress is when someone else steps in and works on it for you. Claim it all as your own work, own ideas, own designs and if you tell yourself that for long enough you actually come to believe it and so do those around you. .So they ignore and keep those who know the truth away from their new life and if they do try to speak the truth then they are the ones who are called the liars and abusers. There are those who will never believe he did anything like this, that he is some sort of engine genius who worked hard and did it all himself and is being victimised and those who know the truth and the facts. Don’t you think it’s time you stood up and spoke out?

Max Rosenburg

3/28/2018 07:45:08 pm

We all know he will have a plausible explanation for who did what on his engine design as he has for his failed relationships. There will always be those gullible souls who will believe him and champion his cause. But there are a lot more out there who wont and don’t , who see the truth through the lies. Not much more you can do about it except wait and watch. I think the following can be applied to his engine as well as his personal life.
Survivors of psychologically abusive relationships ask, “ how did this happen?”.
My answer to them is, “ You met a con artist whose intent was to deceive.
When you would start to figure out the game, the maze would change sending you in a different direction.
You may have figured out the truth but the plan was for you to never know what hit you when the discard arrived.
Shannon Thomas. Southlake counselling.org

Alex Jackson

3/29/2018 09:30:35 am

I don’t think you will have to wait and watch for much longer, from what I have been told recently the cracks are already showing and it won’t be much longer before their house of lies falls down. Too many now see the truth with family, friends and business acquaintances putting distance between themselves and them. Even some of those who were giving him support with his engine have pulled out.
When you lie, cheat and steal it eventually comes out, when you deliberately hurt someone and feel no remorse or guilt it eventually comes out. When you refused to accept that you did something wrong, ignore the damage it caused and make no attempt to fix it, it will eventually come out. And like with the damage they caused the ripples will spread out with more and more becoming aware of the truth.
Just watched the interview with Steve Smith, gut wrenching, but he admitted he did the wrong thing and his actions hurt his family and friends and cricket in Aus and would impact on them for a long time and he did it publicly. I feel sorry for the guy and also proud that he stood up and admitted his mistake, by admitting his faults and trying to repair the damage he has the support of people because it took guts and courage to do that which is something neither Kings or Maz has. They still persist with their lies of innocence and being victimised. The longer they keep denying the truth the worse it will get for them as more become aware of the truth and the facts. .The list of those who know them and actually have any respect for them is getting smaller by the day. Good people do make mistakes either accidently or deliberately, it’s their reaction to them, their feelings of guilt, remorse and accepting blame that shows what sort of a person they are. When bad people make mistakes its always deliberately and they will lie and deny it till hell freezes over, which shows what sort of a person they are and that is the difference between someone like Kings and Maz and a decent person..

Helen Turner

3/29/2018 02:02:57 pm

I just came across this and after a bit of a chuckle as a mental image of either of them standing on a street corner flashed through my mind. , I thought how true.
“ Another name for a Narcissist could well be prostitute. Either Male or Female.
Just as the prostitute sells their body for monetary gains a narcissist will exchange their body and soul to gain what they want.
The prostitute is actually more honest in their transactions.
As they don’t claim to love you and they don’t set out to hurt you or get satisfaction out of doing so as the narcissist does.”
Stopthenarcissistsnow.com

Alex Jackson

3/30/2018 01:25:31 pm

If you actually take the time to think about it, you realise just how true this is. Have to admit I never thought about it in that context before but once it’s pointed out, you can see it. They do trade their body, soul and integrity for what they want. They sell you what you want to hear with lies , both in a personal relationship and to further their careers. Still have more respect for a prostitute than will ever have for either of them.

John White

3/30/2018 01:10:50 pm

After almost choking on my coffee this morning when I read this, I realised it was completely true, best definition of a narcissist so far.
They do trade sex for money, goods and services.
The only difference between them and a prostitute is that a prostitute has integrity and does it solely for money, most prostitutes are decent caring people who don’t have an agenda to hurt and abuse people, it’s a simple business transaction.
A narcissist goes further by making promises they never intend to keep, lying about their feelings for you, and don’t give a damn who they hurt or how much destruction they leave behind as long as they get what they traded themselves for.
So yes, spot on and something a lot of people have thought about and actually compared. Seriously, they do trade their body, feelings, lies and empty promises for gain. That is a fact.
Thanks for the mental picture I will never get rid of; it’s seared into my mind, of them standing on opposite corners under the street lights parading and selling their wares. .

Jesse Franklin

3/30/2018 02:50:22 pm

Part of an email received yesterday from a person who because of circumstances has to have contact with them and does not want to be publically named; I will respect their request for confidentiality for that reason.
“After reading the comparison to prostitution I can see the connection, it’s a wonder I and others hadn’t made it before. Now every time I look at them I will see them as such. After every conversation with either of them I will be wondering just how much of my dignity, self-respect, integrity and money it is going to cost me if I am not careful. They might prostitute themselves with lies and fake promises to gain what they want but I’m bloody sure I won’t. So for as long as I have to have any interaction with either of them I will play their game with the knowledge that I know their rules and will make my own.”

Nikki Shepard

3/31/2018 02:58:17 pm

Oh my God!! I never even would have thought of the comparison, but once it’s pointed out it is strikingly so similar.
A prostitute trades the use of their body for sex for payment in money or goods without any emotional attachment, a business transaction for services rendered that both parties recognise as such and is over when the service has been provided and payment received.
A Narcissist trades the use of their body for sex for payment in money or goods without any emotional attachment, then that’s where the difference comes in , they deliberately and with premeditation encourage emotional attachment from the client/ victim with fake words of love, promises of commitment ,vows of fidelity and straight out lies while systematically deducting payment for their services in either money or goods over the time it takes them to obtain everything the client/ victim has. Once the client/ victim has nothing left to pay for services the Narcissist ends the arrangement and moves on to a new client/ victim. Leaving the old client/ victim a confused, broken wreck both emotionally and financially and the narcissist accepts no responsibility for the damage or feels any remorse or guilt because to them it was nothing more than a payment for services arrangement and so to their warped way of thinking, they have done nothing wrong except end an arrangement because the client/ victim could no longer pay for their services. . .
Looking at it that way, it all makes perfect sense. Thanks for pointing this out, it’s something I won’t forget.
.I actually have more respect for a prostitute either male or female that I ever would for a Narcissist, at least they are honest and upfront with the conditions of the transaction.

Matt Parker

4/2/2018 11:03:49 pm

At some point in your life you have had contact with a con artist, either male or female, not just the ones you see on the news who have conned and scammed thousands for millions of dollars, anyone who deliberately lies to you or has laid a guilt trip on you to gain something from you, has used , manipulated and CONNED you .A tradesperson, family member, co- worker, an intimate partner, in a business deal or the work place is a con artist or more correctly, a Narcissist; they don’t care how much you suffer as long as they get what they want. The covert Narcissist manages to fly under the radar and only their victims, yes, they are victims, know the truth. Most are either to embarrassed or in the majority of cases, to emotionally destroyed to speak out and if they do its always turned back on them as being the cause and the Narcissist as the victim, they are so good at convincing people that their lies are the truth, the real victim doesn’t stand a chance ..I was conned, used and left floundering, but I learnt one thing from it, don’t take people on face value, don’t trust or believe anyone until you learn more about them. Check out their past, if it doesn’t add up with what they are saying then back off. When even one red flag is raised that should be enough warning that all is not as it seems. Pull them up on the inconsistencies, watch their reactions and explanations, the lies they use to blame everyone else, the more sympathy they try to get, the more you know they are hiding something. Once they realise you’re not falling for it, they will scurry off with their tails dragging behind them like the sneaky, lying rats they are and look for another more gullible victim. .
More people than I can count have told some horror story of what being associated with either of the two people in this site has done to their lives in one way or the other. But no one has come straight out and said how any others who have anything to do with them now or in the future should react.
So bottom line is, If possible don’t have anything to do with them, it’s as simple as that. You have that choice, it’s up to you. You have heard and read what dozens of different people from family to co- workers have said and it has been backed up with documented proof or by others, . Don’t give them anything, don’t tell them anything and don’t believe a word they say about anything. It’s either a straight out lie or a warped version of the truth. If they do anything for you, help you out in any way then accept the fact that it’s not done from the goodness of their heart but because somewhere down the track they can see it will benefit them in some way and you will pay the price for it. If you do have to have contact with them, as some have no choice but to, then keep it to a minimum, don’t get involved with them any more than you have to, remember they are not your friend they don’t care about you, they only care about themselves and what they want, they don’t have friends, just people they cultivate that they can use in some way, shape or form either now or in the future. If you do that then you just might keep your mind, body, spirit, family, career, business and of course, your wallet intact.
It’s good to see that regardless of the hell of a nightmare they have both not only put their ex’s through but those they have worked with, befriended or are family, that most of these decent people were strong enough to come out of it damaged, a bit battered and bruised emotionally and financially, having the scars to prove it but still relatively intact and were able to rebuild their lives. You may not be so fortunate..
Checking out some of the recommended sites I came across the following, it says in different words what I have written and others have said.
“Taking what a Narcissist says at face value is a mistake that will cost you dearly. They can only be judged by their actions, never their words.. They only pay lip service and never stick to their word. Judge them only by what they do and what they have done in the past, not by the false promises they make. They are not people of integrity or honour and attach no value to these qualities. Honour, integrity, honesty, fairness, compassion, empathy, love have no meaning in their world unless they need to fake having it to benefit themselves in some way. “ { The war at home-if only someone knew/ face book page}.
One advantage you have that others don’t is you know about them and the signs to look for in others like them. You can’t force the truth on people; they have to want to find it.

Margaret Harrison. USA.

4/3/2018 01:16:00 am

Comparing a narcissist to a prostitute is correct in some respects but really is an insult to a prostitute.
Most prostitutes are decent caring people, either male or female, who use their bodies as a way to make a living, they don’t lie about what they are selling, they don’t attach any emotion to the transaction, they don’t make promises of everlasting love, it’s just a straight out business arrangement without any strings where each party gets what they want and then goes their separate ways.
A narcissist sells their body for sex with fake emotions attached, words of love and commitment that are straight out lies roll off their tongue with ease, promises they never intend to keep and expect continual payment for services rendered either in cash or goods for as long as “ THEY” want the relationship to last . The fact that they are destroying a person, who cares about them, trusts them, believes in them, and is of no importance to the narcissist. It’s all about them, what they want, the destruction they leave when they move on is not their problem, it’s the problem of the one who they scammed for being so stupid to believe them, and that is the way they really think, they honestly don’t see that they have done anything wrong. . They provided a service and took payment for it, that’s it.
. .You can apply the same logic to any business arrangement or employment they take part in. But without the sex, well most times without it. It’s their ideas, usually “ borrowed” from someone else; their over stated expertise and experience that they are selling with false promises of rewards and increased business. All lies of course, they promise everything and deliver nothing except problems and drama that end up costing you more than you invested.
A prostitute provides the goods, you pay for them and both parties walk away satisfied, No pain, no lies, drama or destruction involved. But in dealing with a narcissist expect confusion, lies, excuses, deception, pain, manipulation, abuse, blame, destruction and financial loss as they calmly walk away from the destruction they caused and blame everyone but themselves for it. They are always the victim in their mind. .

Jesse Franklin

4/5/2018 02:32:13 am

Have spoken to several people in the past few days and all agree that a lot of facts and truth is coming out and it’s about time. Not too much is being posted but what is everyone is reading, talking about it and more stories are being passed around about past incidents. Unfortunately there is no actual proof as they have gotten away with it for so long and some people don’t want to be recognised as they are still trying to get over the damage and prefer not to take the chance of reprisals. So quite a lot is being passed around by word of mouth, emails and such. The engineering and training community is a close knit one and everyone either knows or has heard of them. Plus the personal information about issues in their past, it all helps. Any information is greatly appreciated regardless of it being suitable to be made public or not. Certain things that have happened in the past are now making sense to people. The similarities to the services exchanged for money or goods analogy has made certain people stop and look at it in a different way and some have come up with a few stories that bare it out. , . Thanks and stay cautious.

Alex Jackson

4/5/2018 03:36:08 pm

Hell yeah mate, this isn’t something that’s going to just go away. It’s an almost daily talking point and will be for a damn long time, both with what’s on the site and those who remember issues from working with or being involved with one or the other of them in any past situations.
I won’t matter where they get jobs , either here or overseas, so many people know the facts and have read the site that they will always be watched closely and never fully trusted. The same goes for when they decide to change partners, which they will eventually, anyone who checks them out will run a mile before becoming involved with either of them as no one in their right mind will ever believe or trust anything they say. .
Like everyone has said, Abuse is abuse regardless of it being physical or not. Deception lies and cheating is the same in every language.
Will add the following to what’s being said, a colleague from the USA sent it to me.
Just because a person doesn’t put hands on you doesn’t mean they aren’t abusive. Don’t
Settle for emotional abuse, thinking its okay because it’s not physical.” – Tony A. Gaskins Jr
According to psychotherapist Amy Lewis Bear, “Abusers can be highly skilled at projecting an attractive image that convinces others they have solid personal values and wouldn’t be capable of abuse. An abuser’s thoughtful and caring behavior toward others gives their victims more reason to take the blame and for the onlookers to side with the abuser.”
After all, they’re husbands and wives, coworkers and bosses, family members and friends – abusive people fly under the radar more often than not, because they don’t want their abusive tendencies to be front and center. It’s important to know how to spot an abuser before they reveal themselves – or before someone reveals them. It’s important not only for victims of abuse, but for the friends and family of those victims.
Emotional and financial abuse impacts on not just the victim but on everyone around them, partners, children, other family members, coworkers, friends. It’s long overdue that this sort of abuse was recognized by our law makers and the abusers held responsible.
A lot of people don’t believe the victims of abuse because they have only had perfectly pleasant interactions with the abuser. This is a dangerous trap to fall into.. it’s important to remember that abusers will never abuse everyone, they need to have allies to back them up as well. . If someone’s past partners and or coworkers, family members and past friends all have the same story of that person, it’s a red flag. In fact, it’s more likely that someone is abusive if there are only select people in their life that come forward with stories of abuse
The thing about abusive and manipulative people is: these acts are almost never just a one-time thing, but when they abuse, accuse or lie, “they may have elaborate excuses for these incidents or blame the person they attacked by saying they “had to” or that they “were provoked,” states WebMD.
Without a victim, a narcissist has no one to use and abuse. This results in the narcissist getting into a string of failed relationships. This is one of the most overlooked hidden behaviors in an abusive , manipulating narcissistic person. An abuser cannot abuse without a victim.
When one victim is discarded , the narcissist will oftentimes immediately be in search of another victim or have the next one lined up.–.
Narcissists can be all kinds of people, from all walks of life. They can be any race, gender, religion, sexuality or social class. Keeping an eye out for the traits that all narcissistic abusers share will keep victims and potential victims safer as long as their support system is armed with the correct knowledge in spotting an abusive person before they can do any lasting damage.
https://www.powerofpositivity.com/4-hidden-behaviors-abusive-person-displays-revealing/

.

Karen Matthews

4/5/2018 01:30:06 pm

Things I have learnt from the many websites on narcissists in an attempt to get a clear understanding of what I am dealing with. Remarkably similar statements from a variety of different people, male and female, laymen and professionals worldwide. You have to admit their has to be truth in them.
“ Narcissists cannot change, because due to the pathological manner of thinking that’s deeply ingrained in them they will never feel remorse for their abusive behaviour and will never get to a point where “ they get it”.
For that reason they won’t be any happier with the new partner they’ve found, even though they will give you the appearance that they are living the dream life with someone who has healed their broken heart that they have suffered at the hands of previous partners.
Rather because of their disordered way of thinking, all of their relationships are doomed to repeat the same pattern of abuse, manipulation, cheating, lies and dysfunction.
Abandonment and discard will eventually happen, the length of time will depend on the reasons they have to stay, financial gain, social standing, the truth has come out about their previous relationships and they don’t dare leave as it will prove the facts, the reasons vary but the bottom line is that when they see the opportunity to get out, they will and as per usual, they will put the blame squarely on others.”
Kim Saeed.
“ Narcissists are adept at distorting the truth. Narcissistic Manipulators are compulsive and pathological liars.
They will twist events, things you have said or done, things they have said or done turn them around, add a few lies so that their version becomes a far cry from reality, leaving you not knowing what is true. So their target is left feeling confused, full of self doubt and guilt.
Remember that someone who feels the need to deliberately manipulate, use and abuse others to gain what they want has not matured emotionally.
Although they may appear to be strong, confident, positive and in control, they have underlying insecurities and self-doubt. What you see is not what you get.
Their dysfunctional behaviour will tumble them from one relationship to the next.
They absolve themselves from any responsibility in their continual failed relationships by putting the blame on their partners.
Narcissist’s failure to hold themselves accountable for their behaviour is in complete contrast to them holding you accountable for yours.”
“ narcissisticandemotionalabuse.com”
HOW NACISSISTS VIEW PEOPLE.
“Accept that the Narcissist is who and what he or she is.
They are totally incapable of love or deep emotional connections. They will pretend to feel this way about you but it’s not real.
You were not loved for you as a person. You were viewed as an object and loved for your utility.
You were used for the perks you were able to provide.
You were their human helium tank that maintained their inflated view of themselves.
Nothing you did or didn’t do would have changed the outcome.
I know it sounds harsh and is a very painful realization to accept.
He or she is never coming back; they have moved on to the next target, you are forgotten as if you never existed.
So accept the truth and forget them as they have forgotten you and move on to a better and brighter future.”
www.freefromtoxic.com

Marian Lightfoote

4/5/2018 06:05:31 pm

Hi Jess, will call you tonight. Apologies for lack of communication on here, it has been a very busy and exacting time, in my defence.  I have keep up with reading the posts and emails and i know others have as well. Just because we don’t post as many comments does not mean we have stopped reading it, quite the contrary, most of us have said what was important to us in regards to either of them and narcissists in general and its up to new comers to the site to have their say, which we read and comment on if necessary.
Some recent clients have stated the following and its note worthy to share as it backs up quite a lot of what others have said. These are average people both male and female who have had the misfortune to become involved with a Narcissist.
“A narcissist will never accept blame for anything, they will deny, deny, deny no matter how much proof you have to the contrary. You are lying, you are blaming them, they have suffered, they are the victim, and they are the innocent one. They will never see or admit that they and they alone are responsible for the damage and destruction caused to anyone. “ Donny J.
“After all is said I still feel like a typical “ John”, like I paid for every kind word, every expression of love, everything she ever did for me and every act of sex. None of it was real, just a business transaction. To find out that the only feelings she ever had for me was for what I could give her was a bitter blow to my self-esteem and manhood, that our children were nothing more than a bargaining tool to her and she loved and valued my bank account more than she did me.” Phill P.
“ how could he make love to me one night and say all the sweet things he said and the next night do the same with another woman,? . It makes no sense and has completely destroyed my life. How did he manage to keep it up for so long without me finding out,?. Am I that stupid and trusting I deliberately ignored the signs, that I believed him when he said that they were only casual friends who worked together. Looking back I blame myself for not believing what I was seeing and what friends were telling me. Why did I trust him so completely? Was it because i loved him so much?. . I hate myself for being so dumb and stupid, saying “I love you”, means nothing to someone like him, just words to keep you happy and off their tail. I will never trust another man, I will see them all as narcissists, I will always think they want something from me and not actually me. I hope he rots in hell for what he has done and now I have found out he has left her as well and moved on to someone else, bet that wiped the smug look off her face. She told me that she did not steal him from me, that you can’t steal a woman’s husband unless he wants to be stolen, how he told her all about the cruel way i treated him,? How i abused him and used him?, How i didn’t love him, He actually said that about me,? it destroyed me. I wonder how she feels now that she is ME?. Jennifer P
A narcissist will “ borrow” your ideas and claim them as their own. So unless you have written or recorded proof that it’s your work, forget trying to complain. You’re the one who is called a liar and a thief, not them. You’re the one who is forced out, not them. Monique L.

Jesse Franklin

4/6/2018 12:42:11 pm

Have had a couple of emails asking why the comments are getting less. I can only assume those that know them have said everything they wanted to say and they are both keeping a low profile from what i have been told. Because of illness I haven’t had much to do with the site for the past couple months other than check it occasionally, not too sure what the stats were. Have been getting plenty of emails about it as usual. Unfortunately issues, stories, incidents that can’t be made public either by request or for possible legal reasons, these emails are shared with others who without naming names without permission, passes on the details to others who then pass it on to others, you get the idea. Lol. . , So have calculated the stats for last month. The site is doing fine as far as numbers go, largest number of hits in one day, 71, lowest in one day, 19, unique users , that’s those who have accessed the sight on a regular basis, 741, new users worldwide, 684. So it averages out at around 350 a week. .
Hope that clears things up and shows that the site is still doing its job. So post your comments or just continue to read the site and pass it on.

Alex Jackson

4/6/2018 06:11:39 pm

Hey don’t put yourself down, you have done a bloody good job with all the time and effort put into this, everyone has a period where things happen they can’t control. It’s a good site and still gunning its way around the web.
Your right when you said you heard they were keeping a low profile. After that abusive tirade from her daughter where she pretended to be Dianne and got caught out and the information that HE had very little to do with the you beaut engine design, it got everyone talking and wondering if the REAL designer got any credit for it or if he got paid what he was owed. Both caught a few people off guard and made them wonder what the hell was going on. The possibility that they had been scammed manipulated and lied to suddenly became a reality. I believe a few hard questions were asked and they were not buying the answers... Which in turn puts a lot of the other things said and done by both of them in doubt; you get caught out once it’s enough to make everyone put a question mark on other stuff. Those who know them or of them may not be posting much but we sure as hell discuss them and keep each other up to date with what they are up to, we pass the link to the site on to others and check it out fairly often ourselves for any new comments and updates.. . .

Sharon Smith

4/8/2018 03:39:23 am

My Dad and Brother are both Engineers, having worked all over the world, including the Middle East. Both have worked in Qatar and Dubai at various times.
When my marriage of 12 years to my Naval Officer husband, fell apart and left me feeling a complete failure and the cause of him finding someone younger and better , it was my Dad who gave me the directions to this site, he told me to read it and think about it in comparison to my own situation. I found it very informative, rather chilling in the similarities and very helpful. Especially all the references to other links and sites on this subject. , so thank you for that. I have read it several times and will continue to keep up with it, this being the first time I have posted any comments on here but I felt I had to say and agree with others, you have done a service to a lot of people with this site, probably more than you realise and if you need a break, it’s perfectly understandable. I will point out that both Mr Wright and his new 3rd wife, Elizabeth Mazza are very well known throughout the Engineering community and the various industries associated with it, in many places around the world thanks to this site and according to my Dad and brother, especially well known in Qatar and the UK, USA and of course Australia and not for any reasons to be proud of. I have enjoyed reading the comments from so many different people and will continue to do so as the contents of this site, the many comments, the other sites found through this one have had a positive effect on my life. It shows I’m not alone in having dealings with a Narcissist. And I did nothing wrong.

I found the following quite true and interesting.

Since the narcissist, deep down, feel themselves to be faultless, it is inevitable that when they are in conflict with the world or another person they will invariably perceive the conflict as the fault of the world or the other person. . Since they must deny their own wrongness and evilness, they must perceive others as being wrong and evil to enable them to keep up the false sense of righteousness, goodness, blamelessness and victimization they have of themselves...
They project their own evil deeds onto the world and other people. They never think of themselves as bad or evil; on the other hand, they consequently see much evil and wrongness in others…Evil, then, is most often committed in order to scapegoat, and ..the people I label as evil or bad are chronic scapegoaters.. They attack others instead of facing their own failures.

People of the Lie, the hope for healing human evil. by M Scott Peck.

The false ego that Mr Scott calls evil has dominated the Narcissist, they can never accept responsibility for their own actions, they will always attempt to transfer blame to others. This is why conventional therapy for Narcissists fail. For therapy to work, the person must accept responsibility for their actions . The Narcissist can never accept responsibility because it will destroy their false ego and the fantasy world they have created , which will result in their own destruction.
" ACrackLetsTheLightIn.".

Sarah Wright

4/8/2018 01:19:13 pm

Ring any bells???. Remind you of someone???
SOME SIGNS OF A NARCISSIST_SOCIOPATH_PSYCOPATH.
Superficial charm.
Untruthful and manipulative.
Egocentric.
Devoid of remorse or sympathy.
Seeks to win at all costs.
Never apologises.
Expert story tellers.
Expert at making a lie become the truth.
Presents themselves as a person with high morals.
Incites emotional chaos.
Feigns like or love to get what they want.
Some can pass a lie detector test as they actually believe their own stories.
Never accepts blame, always the victim.
Claims others ideas and achievements as their own.
Goes out of their way to help others but always at a cost to them in some way, shape or form.
Can elicit sympathy as easily as a child.
Can be either male or female.
They will make you feel like the most important person in the world. But over time they will emotionally distance themselves and you won’t see it happening until it’s too late.
The most dangerous thing about a narcissist is their lack of empathy, but they fake it extremely well.
This is where the difficulty lies.
They are so charming, believable, and vulnerable, they seem so loving, honest, truthful and sincere, but it’s a facade,,, a very convincing facade.

Ellie Thompson

4/9/2018 02:30:36 pm

The more I dig into this subject and them ,the more fascinated I become. The more the truth emerges and the more I understand.
If you’re like most people, you’ve encountered at least a few narcissistic individuals in your lifetime. You know the type – the person who is typically described as vain and self-absorbed. They often regard themselves as the center of the universe – and you (along with everyone else) are expected to cater to them, even if that means neglecting your own needs and desires.
Although many people can be selfish and conceited from time to time, some individuals take it to a whole other level. When these traits define the person – and they negatively impact everyone who is part of their life for as long as they are a part of it – they usually signal a mental health condition known as Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Like all personality disorders, naricissism can have far-reaching consequences for both the one suffering from it and the people who care about them.
Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder have a very distorted sense of self. They are generally “grandiose”, which means they have an inflated or exaggerated opinion of their positive traits and / or abilities. Even though some are very attractive, highly intelligent, or exceptionally talented, narcissists typically regard themselves as elite or exceptional compared to everyone else. Regardless of their actual social standing, they perceive themselves as very important – and expect others to view them as such.
Narcissists thrive on the praise and admiration of others. Their air of superiority is exaggerated often quite obvious, although narcissists are very skilled at pretending to be humble, considerate, caring when necessary. However, their grandiosity can easily be shattered by criticism from others. When this occurs, it usually elicits rage, rejection, or a torrent of condescending remarks skillfully rendered to put the offending person in his or her place.
Narcissists, as a general rule, are very selfish. They have very little, if any, empathy for others. They will pretend to, however. Successful narcissists can initially come across as very understanding, very giving, and very selfless. In time, however, this façade will crack because they can’t sustain it. Their true colors always show eventually. Sadly, this can be quite a shock to anyone who was initially fooled by their act.
In the eyes of a narcissist, the world literally revolves them. They regard other people as objects, whose sole purpose is to either “mirror them” (and by doing so, enhancing their inflated view of themselves) or to cater to their needs. This is why being in a relationship of any kind with a narcissist is very difficult, and over time can be very painful. As most have found, trying to have a genuine relationship with a narcissist is a constant no-win situation. No matter what they do, or how hard they try, it’s never enough and it will always end badly.
As with all personality disorders, the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder occur repetitively and to a significant degree. While many people exhibit some or all of these symptoms at various moments in time, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they have narcissistic personality disorder. With narcissism, the symptoms don’t just appear once in a while – they are a consistent part of their makeup. They always impact their relationships. When these symptoms are present consistently, a diagnosis can be made by a qualified professional. Keep in mind, though, that narcissisms very rarely seek treatment so many are never officially diagnosed.
• Exaggerated sense regarding their accomplishments and talents
• Unreasonable expectations of favoritism
• Striving for constant admiration and attention
• Obsessive self-involvement
• Inability to feel empathy; lack of a sincere interest in others
• Use of others to get what they want in life
• Belittlement of others to boost their fragile self-esteem
• Inability to maintain healthy relationships
• Fantasies revolving around personal success and attractiveness
• Pathological lying
• Finding the most vulnerable person, usually a child or junior staff member and manipulate them into being an ally
• Claim others ideas or accomplishments as their own
• Claims victim status and abuse to gain sympathy in every failure or set back
• Multiple failed relationships either romantic or business.
• Ironically, most narcissists are not really bothered by their symptoms. They have an amazing ability to rationalize their problems or blame them on someone or something else – they very rarely take any personal responsibility for their problems. However, their personality disorder often does create significant problems in their life.
• Science has yet to reveal a specific cause

Ellie Thompson

4/9/2018 03:51:49 pm

• I am really sorry, i didn’t realize it didn’t all fit in the one post until i went back and read it after posting.
•
• Science has yet to reveal a specific cause of narcissistic personality disorder. However, family dynamics and parenting during early childhood are believed to play a significant role. There may also be a genetic predisposition or hereditary factor. Most likely, it is a combination of factors that lead to the development of narcissism. Living or working with someone exhibiting the behavior patterns such as selfishness, lack of empathy and remorse ,manipulating others for gain, sympathy and support, can be trying at best and will always end in disaster.
• Narcissism is not specific to one gender, both men and women are equal in this disorder. With women the actions they display are the same as the males but the ways they implement them vary and a woman is more likely to be believed in the stories/ lies of the abusive behavior of a male partner. . Female narcissists use their children as tools in their nefarious schemes, becoming pregnant is one way they blackmail a non narcissistic person into becoming their partner and giving them what they want, an example is if their target is a married man and he can be coerced into leaving his wife , the child in some cases is not the child of the person they have targeted but the target doesn’t know that because they have had an intimate relationship with the narcissist. Most people would be surprised to learn that the female narcissist who is in a permanent relationship and has several children , that at least one if not more of the children are not fathered by their partner but by whoever they have been having affairs with. The partner most times never realizes this and the non biological child/ children are paraded as being his and equally used to blackmail him. Which is why so many men have begun to demand DNA tests before financially agreeing to child support during a divorce. The narcissistic woman feels no guilt about passing a child off as her husbands or partners, as the child is just one more bargaining tool to be used. Just as the male narcissist feels no guilt or remorse for abandoning his children or also using them as a tool to cause pain to their wife or partner . Any child that has a narcissistic parent is born to be used and suffers constant emotional abuse.

Louise Starkey

4/11/2018 03:01:04 pm

Everything in the article you posted has been quoted time and time again by both victims and professional therapists, yet there are those who still believe their BS and lies. Not just in the case of these two individuals but with most narcissists. No amount of telling them to check the facts, to question the stories of woe or achievements can persuade them otherwise. Some people simply believe what they see and hear on the surface rather than believe what most know is a load of lies and BS because they have no choice. They are too deeply involved with the narcissist and to admit the truth to themselves would destroy the illusion they have of a perfect partner in a domestic relationship, a perfect parent, a perfect friend or a professional, business relationship .Or in some cases are so heavily involved financially they have to keep turning a blind eye and ignoring the truth.
You can’t force anyone to see the truth if they don’t want to.
You would think that after all the evidence is presented even the most gullible person would at least admit that something was definitely wrong but strangely enough there are those that still don’t.
A person who repeatedly::
Tells straight out lies or twists the truth to present themselves as someone they are not.. Uses and manipulates others for personal gain. Emotionally abuses those closest to them. Shows no remorse or guilt for the damage they cause. Accepts no responsibility for their actions. Blames others for mistakes they make. Plays the victim, the abused and used one, to gain sympathy and support. Steals others ideas and hard work and claims it as their own. Can lie to and manipulate children either their own, their partners or other family members to solidify their place in the family without a though as to how it effects them emotionally especially when they abandon them.. Who cheats on their spouse without a second thought? Who discards another human being as if they were a piece of garbage when finished with them and blames them, not themselves. Can simply without any reason, except the ones they make up, walk away from a person who cared about and supported them, sometimes for years, leaving them an emotional and financial wreck, in some cases suicidal and feel absolutely nothing. Who has multiple relationships, multiple affairs, jumping from bed to bed to get what they want. Multiple employment positions of short duration and always leave either by choice or termination under a cloud, leaving the mess they created for someone else to clean up .Who convince others to invest in something they have invented or a way to make a profit knowing full well it won’t work and the only one who benefits is them.
If any of these were a one off thing it would be different but a narcissist does this over and over again without any feelings of guilt. The evidence is there to prove it. I think the worse thing is that they never ever accept responsibility for their actions, the damage and destruction they cause emotionally, personally, financially, they simply don’t care. They walk away and forget it...Telling themselves and anyone else, they did nothing wrong. And they never feel they should apologise or try to repair the damage, it’s not their problem. Then go on and continue to do exactly the same thing to others. . Repeat offenders and it’s all there in their past. Someone mentioned that they were “evil” and they are right.

Marian Lightfoote

4/12/2018 03:20:10 pm

The last few posts have contained some of the best articles I have read on here. Written by professionals who have had many years experience in dealing with the victims of narcissistic abuse and have obtained a very clear picture of how the narcissist thinks and acts. They have never met either of the individuals this site is about, I doubt they have even heard of them but they have pegged them exactly. If you have read the web site then you are aware that what is in those articles describes to a T what both of them have done, not just once but many times.
The lies, manipulation, emotional abuse, financial abuse, theft, lack of empathy or guilt, destruction of others lives both in a personal relationship and in the work place, greedy, selfish, self-centred, portraying themselves as the victim to obtain sympathy and support and the list goes on.
Total lack of concern or thought for the damage their actions do to others, only ever thinking of themselves and what they want and how to get it.
The parallels of how they think and act are almost the same as in the articles. That is a fact even the non believer can’t deny.
They have been called “ evil” and that describes them exactly. An evil person is a person with no conscience , no morals, no regard for anyone but themselves, who will never admit any wrong doing, never accept blame, always has a scapegoat to put the blame on , who walks away from the damage they caused with the attitude of, “ not my problem, I didn’t cause it, I am a victim”. Then does exactly the same thing again.
Because this person can’t accept blame they never apologise, unless there is something in it for them, even then it’s just lip service not a genuine apology, they will never try to repair the damage because in their mind, it wasn’t them that caused it, how easily they can blame the victim or anyone else and actually believe it still has even the most experienced professional psychiatrist or therapist scratching their heads in disbelief. It’s a complete disassociation from what has occurred and the belief that they are innocent of any wrong doing that is the most astounding fact and that is what causes the victim to doubt themselves and leaves them in an emotional mess, they know deep down they were not the cause but because of the insistence and blame throwing of the narcissist they believe that they were the cause and they are the ones who are left with feelings of guilt and who then go out of their way to try and repair something they were not responsible for.
As in the case on here, Dianne spent over a year after he “ left” supporting him emotionally and financially in an attempt to make it easy for him to sort himself out because of the problems “ she” caused him. Then when he got what he wanted, the divorce and financial gain, he totally ignored that she even existed , they both covered up what they did with lies. Typical reaction of a victim and typical manipulative behaviour of the narcissist.
( Psychological abuse , also known as “ psychological violence, emotional abuse or mental abuse “ is a form of abuse characterized by a person subjecting or exposing another person to behaviour that can result in psychological trauma, including anxiety, depression and post traumatic stress disorder.
The narcissist will attack and belittle the person who is being critical instead of dealing with the points the person is making. They do this because they have no logical defence against the criticism and questions; they have been found out... So it’s easier to destroy the reputation of the person and put the blame on them...
Narcissists have secret lives. They lie effortlessly. They are two faced, appearing with a perfect public image that most people believe. But in the shadows when no one is looking they do tremendous damage to family members including their own children, and to those they work with. They cover up the abuse and manipulation with lies and blame shifting and come out of it looking like the long suffering one who has been abused, used and lied about, gaining sympathy and support while the real victim is left floundering to understand. )
Dr. David McDermott. “ what is narcissism”.

Karen Mitchell

4/13/2018 02:24:46 pm

Thanks for all the info on them and the articles. It has cleared up a few misconceptions and made myself and others aware of how they work.
Will throw the following in as it verifies what has been posted and adds a bit more to understanding on how to stay safe from them and others like them.
Anyone who normalizes, accepts ,condones or covers up the behaviour and actions of a narcissist or in this case, those of the two individuals this site is about, will have to answer in the future in one way or another for their silence and acquiescence, if not indeed for their outright cowardice.
One who accepts or aids in the actions of another that causes damage and destruction to an innocent party is just as guilty of the evil deeds as the instigator.
Dealing with a toxic person is something we all have to deal with at some point in our lives.
Narcissists are pathological compulsive liars, manipulators, they wallow in self pity to gain sympathy and support.
They will always find a way to worm themselves into your life if you have something they want, sympathy and support is usually the first door they open, if you let them in then starts the merry go round of lies, deceit , manipulation and emotional abuse. They will create drama to manipulate you to suit their needs.
Often they will apply a “ divide and conquer” strategy in which they sow the seeds of instability with lies and accusations in order to make themselves seem an essential and necessary part of your life or that of the work environment.
By accepting ,condoning and supporting their behaviour they are dragging you down to their level of sick evil behaviour and eventually when the truth is revealed it will be you who they blame, because they have been loading the gun behind closed doors , giving it to you to pull the trigger and you are the one who has been seen while they lurk in the shadows watching and directing, they will make themselves into martyrs and convince the world that they have done nothing but their best for you and you have betrayed their trust and taken advantage of their kindness and good heart., The narcissist is more concerned about impressing those around them than telling the truth.

Jesse Franklin

4/14/2018 03:31:00 pm

Thanks for all the new articles, lots of comments on them both on here and via email from those who wish to remain private. I was informed last night that Kings has moved again, house, office, workshop. It's a bit strange to say the least as they only moved a few months ago and he was telling everyone how good it was to finally get the space to set up his workshop. A lot of work starting over again without a good reason.?
Anyone who can give information as to why and where they are now located, do not need the exact address, just the general area, it would be appreciated . There is still a few people with wounds not completely healed who would prefer not to have them opened by accidentally running into either of them and who go out of their way to avoid anywhere they are. Where they moved to last year was known and the area avoided. I could with a bit of digging and asking questions find out but i dont have the time or energy at the moment. If your not comfortable posting on here then email me. franklin_jess@yahoo.com
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Something i feel very strongly about and will continue to push it home to everyone.

“ If you turn and face the other way when someone is being or has been abused, used and manipulated then you might as well be the abuser yourself. Silence gives consent. Don't make yourself an accomplice , do the right thing, stand up and step forward .“

Jesse Franklin

4/16/2018 09:15:14 pm

Many thanks to those who emailed with info on the area, suburb he now lives in. It has been passed on to those who needed to know and yes, that included Dianne. One asked a question i felt deserved an answer. “ why after 3 or 4 years is she, Dianne, scared to run into them? She should be over it by now. “. So to clarify, she and the other few individuals who wanted to know where they are , well, they are not scared OF them, but scared of the memories and pain seeing him or her would revive. Painful memories they have worked hard to obliterate from their lives. If they know the general area they live and where they work then they can avoid those places and if at anytime they have to for whatever reason go there then they are aware they could run into one or both of them and are prepared for it, not just have the shock of suddenly have them standing in front of them. Unless you have been through what she has and to a lesser extent what several others have, then it's not easy to understand so i have included an article from a well respected psychologist which i hope gives a bit of insight.
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You don't have to purposely cause physical harm to another person to be a sociopath, no, a sociopath does it the “ clean way” by taking your life apart piece by piece. This includes the final cruelty of leaving you psychologically broken and financially ruined. I have heard to many of these horror stories and it is vital we understand how this happens and reach out to those who have been abandoned and left behind with unbearable traumas and sorrows that ruin the heart and soul, that leaves the victim fighting to not only regain their pride, dignity, self respect and self worth but in some cases their sanity. . . The damage they are left with can last for years and even the smallest incident, as with PTSD, can trigger the memories of pain ,confusion and self imposed guilt. All sociopaths are narcissists.They have no conscience, no empathy, no mercy. They feel no remorse or guilt for the lives destroyed. Once they have moved on they will vilify, lie about and blame the victim to gain sympathy and support ,then ignore they even existed. Unlike the narcopath the victim on the other hand cannot ignore what happened because they are the one who lived through it and carry the memories and scars.
There are NO “ Two sides to every story”, there is their story and then their is the truth.
Those who don't reach out to the real victim but instead support the narcopath or stay on the sidelines and not get involved are normalising and condoning the narcopaths behaviour and are despicable people who are no better than the narcopath.

Linda Martinez-Lewi, PHD.

Nick Jones

4/17/2018 02:14:36 am

I can totally understand , its the fight or flight mode. Either go into panic mode and run or come up swinging. Keeping as far away from them as possible is the only way to survive at times. Most people simply do not understand just how much damage these two have caused over the years to so many people and that it's not something you “ just get over”.. They are to busy swallowing the stories they tell and feeling sorry for them.
The lies , the cheating, the backstabbing, the manipulation, the emotional abuse, the outright theft of ideas, finances, possessions, the way they have destroyed careers through lies, envy and greed, the way they initially come across as a genuine caring person until they get what they want then sabotage you with lies and take the credit for what you have done, the way they suck you in with promises of love and commitment then kick you to the curb when they have what they want. I'm not surprised the designs for his engine were done by someone else, its typical of him to take the credit for it. As for her,, never turn your back , it makes to good a target.
As for the frequent moves, its either to upgrade to a better bigger house because someone else has one better than them or because they have been found out and have to move on.
The same goes for their employment but most times it's because of the dramas they cause and their incompetence. It doesn't take long to see through the lies as most are now aware of the real character of them not the fake one they parade around, thanks to this site. It has in a way made it more difficult for them to get away with what they do , where as before they were exposed they had it so damn easy.. . ,

Alex Jackson

4/17/2018 04:42:45 pm

I know the thought of accidently coming face to face with one of them is always in the back of the mind of a few people, so avoiding the possibility as much as you can is the best thing to do. It's a given it will happen eventually but hopefully enough time will have passed to lessen the trauma. I know with one person in particular that the flight mode will not be the one taken at this point.
Quite a few people who were originally interested in his engine have done a turn around and want nothing to do with it, 1. Because of all the lies. 2. Because of the way he used people to get where he is. 3.Its not his hard earned work or ideas.4. He has taken others ideas and i don't just mean the guy who actually did the designs, there are others going back years he has incorporated in it.5. What the potential legal ramifications could be.6. Has he actually checked out all the registered patents or copyrights there are on it or on certain parts of it?. thousands... ? Been working on it for over 20 years and the world has moved on, its simply not viable anymore. If it ever gets finished it might make a good hobby engine as a one off ,but that's about all, even then it's going to be years before that happens. Not only does it have to get to the stage of being put together but then it has to work and that takes months of testing if not years to get it right. So all the revheads who wet their pants over it need to do a bit of background checking before getting to excited.
So if nothing else the information on here has given a number of people second thoughts about getting involved with it and those that did , after verifying the facts, have withdrawn support, then there are the unlucky ones who trusted and helped him and were given the boot after he got what he wanted from them. This to goes right back to when he first started working on it, a lot of people have been hurt both financially and emotionally along the way, so don't forget them like he has.

Dyllis Jones . Wales. UK.

4/17/2018 10:12:45 pm

Totally understand where you're coming from, better the inconvenience of going a longer way or a different shopping centre than suddenly come face to face with one of them.
Hope the following explains it.

The war at home-if only someone knew.com
Ending domestic abuse one family at a time.

Unless your a survivor of emotional abuse you have no idea what it means to fight daily battles in your head with a person you no longer have contact with.
Emotional or verbal or financial or physical abuse, just one or a combination of them have residual effects on the victim. Stop making the mistake of thinking that DOMESTIC ABUSE is just PHYSICAL . Just because someone does not have visible scars does not mean they are not there, does not mean they have not been ABUSED. . And you DON'T just get over it..
The prospect of seeing your abuser either by design or accident can and usually does cause panic attacks and worse. Having the knowledge of where they are and going out of your way to avoid those places is a safety net to survivors.

Another point to remember is:
“ The way they left tells you everything you need to know about them.”

NarcissisticAndEmotionalAbuse.com
.

Marian Lightfoote

4/18/2018 01:40:34 pm

Interesting article to add to recent comments.
CLASSIC TRAITS OF MANIPULATIVE PEOPLE /NARCISSISTS.
Manipulative people especially those with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, have mastered the art of deception. They may appear respectable and sincere but often that’s just a facade; it's a way to draw you in and ensnare you in a relationship before they show their true colours.
Narcissistic Manipulative people are really not interested in you except as a vehicle to allow them to gain control so that you become an unwilling participant in their plans. They have several ways of doing this, as many of you will recognize. They will often take what you say and do and twist it around so that what you said and did becomes barely recognizable to you. They will attempt to confuse you, maybe even making you feel as if you’re crazy. They distort the truth, and resort to lying if it serves their end. Narcissistic Manipulative people can play the victim, making you seem to be the one who caused a problem which they began but won’t take responsibility for. They can be passive aggressive or nice one minute and standoffish the next, to keep you guessing. They often make you defensive. They can also be extremely aggressive and vicious, resorting to personal attacks and criticism, dogged in their pursuit of getting what they want. Understanding these basic operating mechanisms can help prevent you from getting pulled into a manipulative relationship. Staying alert, staying in touch with what you know to be true about yourself will enable you to avoid a conflict and maintain your own integrity.
Narcissistic Manipulative people either lack insight into how they engage others and create certain scenarios, or they truly believe that their way of handling a situation is the only way because it means that their needs are being met, and that's all that matters. Ultimately, all situations and relationships are about them, and what others think, feel, and want really doesn’t matter:
“Controllers, abusers, and manipulative people don’t question themselves. They don’t ask themselves if the problem is them. They always say the problem is someone else.” —Darlene Ouimet
Narcissistic Manipulative people do not understand the concept of boundaries. They are relentless in the pursuit of what they want and have little regard for who gets hurt along the way.They can be likened to a parasite—in the natural world this is often an acceptable relationship. In human behavior, however, feeding off of someone at their expense is depleting, exhausting, weakening, and demeaning. A narcissistic manipulator avoids responsibilities for his own conduct by blaming others for causing it. It’s not that manipulative people don’t understand what responsibility is. They do; a narcissistic manipulative person just sees nothing wrong with refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Narcissistic Manipulative people prey on our sensibilities, emotional sensitivity, and especially conscientiousness. They know they have a good chance of hooking you into a relationship because you are a kind, feeling, caring person, and, because you want to help. They may cater to your goodness and kindness at first, often praising you for the wonderful person you are. But over time, praise will be minimised because you are being used in the service of someone who really doesn’t care about you. They really just care about what you can do for them. If you want an easy way to discern a narcissist sociopath manipulator from empathetic people, pay attention to the way they speak about others in relation to you. They will often talk about you behind your back the same way they talk to you about others. They are masters at “triangulation"—creating scenarios and dynamics that allow for intrigue, rivalry, and jealousy, and encourage and promote disharmony.
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words. Always remember that what a person says and does are two very separate things. Observe someone closely, without making excuses for them—usually what you see is what you get.This is an essential point: Our initial encounter and perception of someone strongly colors our developing relationship with them. If we understood from the beginning that a person is not who they seem to be, and is just hiding behind a facade of what appears to be socially acceptable behavior, then perhaps we would be more wary of getting involved with them. When it comes to controlling human beings there is no better instrument than lies. Because, you see, humans live by beliefs. And beliefs can be manipulated. The power to manipulate beliefs is the only thing that counts.” — Michael Ende
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-flux/201610/9-classic-traits-manipulative-people

Angie Mitchell

4/18/2018 07:58:19 pm

This is really interesting. It backs up what others are saying.
When some people hear the term “ Narcissist”, they envision someone who talks about themselves to much or takes a lot of selfies. These traits may be present but are essentially harmless and may even be amusing if taken lightly. Pathological Narcissists however, lie excessively, wear different masks around different people,have secret lives and are masters at fake emotions, resulting in false realities being constructed for victims. This is all done to manipulate them into willingly make themselves vulnerable enough to be exploited and results in an extraordinary amount of psychological damage and in most cases financial damage. Don't be fooled in thinking they only do this in an intimate or family relationship, they do it every day in everything they do. Manipulating everyone around them to get what they want is their only goal. Their tactics vary from person to person depending on who you are and what they have learnt about you after studying and watching you.
Kristen Milstead. The war at home-if only someone knew.

Max Rosenburg.

4/19/2018 11:39:31 pm

The truth will out, it always does, might take awhile but you will be shown for who and what you are eventually, it’s started already. If you don’t, can’t or won’t realise that then you really have a problem. The longer a lie is left to fester, fed by more lies to keep it covered the worse it is when it oozes out. Be a decent man or woman and admit your mistakes , admit you lied, admit your lies hurt others, stop hiding what you did, too many people know the truth now and every time you open your mouth they know it’s probably a lie, you’re not trusted or respected by anyone and you know it. Everyone you know, family, friends , those you work with, will all start fading away , out of your life till there is no one left who cares about you at all. Some have already and you know that. It won’t get any better for you, the longer you run, hide and deny the truth to yourself and others, the worse it will get for you and that is a fact. So my advice to you is: Do the right thing and you know where you have to start. Let’s see if you have the courage to take that first step. I have been told by several people, you won’t, that you are a coward, that you have always run away.. . Prove them wrong. This applies to everyone, not just these two. You do wrong, you lie, you cheat, you steal, you use and abuse, you step up, admit it and you try to fix it. That’s if you’re a decent person with a conscience that is.

Alex Jackson

4/20/2018 02:32:23 pm

For an old fart as you call yourself, you give some damn good advice. But i think your wasting your time with this one. I have heard similar stories from some of the people i have met on here and those closer to home who know or knew them. When the s**t hits the fan and they get caught out instead of standing up ,accepting responsibility and trying to fix it, they lie and when that doesn't work they run and find the next source of supply for sympathy, blaming others and lying about the situation, strange thing is they actually believe they did nothing wrong and are the victims and convince others of it because they are so sincere and act so vulnerable and hurt, so the person they targeted in a personal situation, partner, family , friends or if it's work related,the company dynamics and even the employer gets the blame. ...Absolutely nothing you or anyone else says will convince them that they ever did the wrong thing or were to blame for anything and neither of them will ever take steps to fix the damage or have the courage to face those they have caused so much grief and destruction to.. To do so would destroy the illusions they have about themselves. A lot of people have learnt about narcissists from the site and swapped stories about them both and the truth has come out, making some feel guilty for believing them and others it has taken the guilt off them for being convinced that they were the blame and cause. So that’s a good result. Like many others i have read up on Narcissists and found the following article.

A narcissists problems are of their own making. Such as cheating on a spouse or partner and lying to cover it up, blaming others for mistakes they make in the workplace, claiming others work as their own, using false promises of love and commitment to gain from a person. Then they externalize the blame with more lies. They are incapable of admitting fault and soak up their guilt with the sympathy and support they get from the enablers.
Framing is one of the narcissists most lethal tools. For instant they will instigate a altercation ,straight out lie or manipulate you to get what they want then when you react to the abusive behaviour they label you as the aggressor, unstable, a liar or crazy. The narcissist uses this tactic to gain narcissistic supply,support the lies he or she has told about you, and exonerate themself from any blame or wrongdoing all at the same time.
Using this tactic effectively shifts all of the negative attention away from their abusive behaviour and on to your reaction to their abuse, this then gives credence to their lies and gains them sympathy and support.
Remember this issue isn't with you, its with the narcissist.
Taken from with thanks. @childofanarcissist.

Coral Saunders

4/20/2018 01:31:17 am

How messed up is it that the victims of abuse, emotional and or physical have to justify and prove that they were abused, used and manipulated , lied to, cheated on, driven to the edge of insanity and financially ruined.? When the perpetrator is believed in the lies they tell, given pity ,sympathy and support. If we can prove the abuse and manipulation we are asked what we did or didn't do that made them do it?, after all they are such “ nice, caring, loving people. . It is assumed that we caused it, not them. How about we turn it around to where the abuser has to prove they didn't do it or if they did why? And not with lies , with actual evidence.. Stop persecuting the victims and not the offender. Stop taking sides until you get to the truth. The victim does not make excuses , has nothing to hide and is not afraid of the truth. Being told that “ your just hurt because he or she moved on” is like a kick in the stomach to a victim.

Aiden Myers CA USA.

4/21/2018 02:07:11 pm

Truer words were never spoken.

A narcissist wants you to feel sorry for them. They will paint a picture of how badly they have been treated in the past. Your sympathy and support gives them the attention they crave and plays on your heart. Your kind nature will dictate that you try so very hard to make sure that they are never hurt like that again. You will do everything in your power to make sure they are loved and admired. You will give them everything they want to make them happy. Be mindful, you will be added to that list of evil doers who have hurt them some time in the future.

Jenny McNamara. Aust.

4/21/2018 10:02:55 pm

You have to wonder why people are so stupid to continue to support and defend a narcissist. With hundreds of websites from all over the world about this disorder from the victims to professional trained psychiatrists and therapists, all the information they contain that is exactly the same, the methods they use, the lack of conscience and guilt, the same stories of lies, abuse, manipulation, cheating, stealing, etc etc etc, surely even the most ignorant uneducated person can see the truth. They will use you and rip you off and that is a proven fact. Yet there are still those who ignore it. Why??.

You are told narcissists are ::: Ambitious go getters, full of energy and pumped with charismatic charm, smart, intelligent and successful .

The problem is::: Covert Narcissists are marked by failed ambitions, chronic feelings of emptiness, fragility, low functioning, failed relationships and careers and when depleted of supply can frequently sink into outright depression..

You are told::: Narcissists can be detected because they will always tell you how how amazing they are by bragging about their achievements.

The problem is ::: Covert Narcissists are known for presenting themselves as vulnerable victims who have been used and hurt and will use that fake vulnerability as bait to hook you in.

Covert Narcissists have usually had rotten lives when young but rather than build themselves up they use that as a reason to destroy anyone who loves them or who they feel is better than them. They use pity to gain attention and support, emotionally healthy people don't want pity, most find it uncomfortable and condescending and would prefer you were simply there for support if needed without you feeling pity.

Richard Grannon . http://spartanlifecoach.com/covert-narcissistic-abuse-unmasked/
I have learned a lot from life these last few years. I have learned that no matter what they did to me i will never sink to their level. My anger and hurt made me bitter in the beginning because i knew i did nothing to deserve it, but then i realised that was what they wanted, for me to hit back proving to those around them that what they were saying was the truth and i was the instigator and abuser. I decided i would not let them do that to me and cause me more pain, i would calmly tell my side of the story, the truth as it happened and not worry about those who would not see it and believe it, who believed their made up stories and lies ,who would abuse me for hurting and lying about them . I know that whatever life throws at me i can handle it and move on, i have before , with the death of my brother,my babies and my husband. I had always been strong, honest and fair, how i let him get to me and use me the way he did is something i still can't completely understand. All i know is that i loved him, cared for him and would never have hurt him, all he gave me was confusion, pain and suffering and i will never know why he felt he had to do that, But i have accepted it happened, have repaired what i could of my life, put behind me what i couldnt and moved on, i will never forgive or forget and will forever be on guard to ensure it never happens again. .
I have learnt that when someone shows me their true colours i won't ignore it , i will believe it the first time i see it and act accordingly, no excuses, no second chance. I have learnt that saying , “ i love you” is to some people just words with no lasting meaning that is said to get something you have or can supply and they want.
I have forgiven myself for placing my trust and belief in those who did not deserve it . I know i am far better than they will ever be and i will continue to be the me i now am, basically the same me but with barriers up.

Heather Merrian

4/23/2018 07:40:14 pm

This was written almost 200 years ago by a person whose only education was through living and understanding life. It's a bit far out there for some people to understand, but it is true.
“ Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. Every vibration causes change. Change is either good or bad, gives pain or happiness. All things are bound together . All things connect. All things come back to us.”
Chief Seattle. 1854.
Nothing has changed, we are still beings who are selfish, greedy, cruel, take what we want , ignore the consequences and blame others . When one thread of a web is disturbed it sends out vibrations that affect all the other threads, vibrating stronger the further it goes. So whatever you do continues having an effect on everyone and everything until it comes back to you, stronger than ever. So how about you lot all do some soul searching, those who did wrong admit it, those who condoned wrong, admit it, those who ignored wrong, admit it and the lot of you, get off the bloody fence, stop lying to yourself and others, admit the truth, stand up and say, “ enough is enough”, stop giving support and sympathy to the Narcissist, without it, they have nothing but themselves, try and repair some of the damage done to others, because regardless of if you were the instigator or not, by condoning or ignoring it, you contributed to it..And it will come back to you.

Helen Turner

4/23/2018 11:40:17 pm

If you're reading this then its because you think you are dealing with a narcissist and are looking for answers.
Then take notice of the following.. You are dealing with someone who is not just selfish and self centred, it goes way beyond that. A person with narcissistic personality disorder, by definition, lacks empathy. This means that they lack most of the emotions you have. They have no consideration for others, they lie with conviction, they have no guilt , remorse or embarrassment for anything they do. They are incapable of love, commitment ,loyalty or truth. They will say the words, make the promises and take the vows, but, it has no meaning to them other than to gain something they desire and once having obtained it, you are discarded and forgotten, but not before you are blamed for the failure of the relationship or business arrangement . They are never to blame. They play the abused victim with expertise. The more sympathy and support you give, the more they can manipulate you. They are masters at hiding who they really are, they have learnt not to show their real face to the world ,they lie, pretend and decieve to gain... Do not take them on face value, if it feels wrong then the chances are, it is wrong, check their past, if they have done it once then they will do it again. No one is perfect or blameless, except the narcissist in their own opinion..

Dr. David McDermott. “ What is narcissism?. A practical guide to protecting yourself.”

Jesse Franklin

4/24/2018 03:01:21 pm

Had dinner the other night with a friend who is a solicitor here in the Uk. We got on to the subject of emotional abuse. For those of you who are not aware, in 2015 in the Uk , psychological, emotional and financial abuse was made a crime punishable with a prison sentence. In the discussion it came up that Australia and other commonwealth countries were seriously looking into bringing in the same laws. It’s about time and is long overdue. If these laws were in force in Australia a few years ago, there would be a couple of people who would have spent time in jail and have criminal records. Especially where emotionally manipulating a person into committing suicide is concerned.
Have included a few comments about it. So all you supporters of a narcissist should take notice as you can be charged as an accessory.
A new law targeting people who psychologically ,emotionally or financially abuse their partners, spouses, parents, children or other family members, has come into force under the Serious Crime Bill.
The legislation will see psychological abusers facing up to five years in jail or a hefty fine, or both, if found guilty.
Prior to the change, there was no specific offence of domestic abuse, let alone any law criminalizing “controlling, coercive, manipulating” behavior, according to The Police Foundation.
New law shows Government 'takes emotional abuse seriously'
Government plans to strengthen domestic violence laws to better support victims of psychological ,emotional and financial abuse are partly about sending a message "that this is a crime, we are taking it seriously", a Home Office minister has stated..
Norman Baker MP said this would give victims the confidence to come forwards.
The damage inflicted by coercive behavior in relationships is "too often overlooked", according to the Shadow Home Secretary.
The criminal justice system needs to recognize the damage done by repeated psychological abuse and coercive control which is too often overlooked - the Government's agreement to this consultation is a welcome tribute to those who have campaigned hard for change.
Coercive and controlling behavior, financial manipulation, emotional abuse and manipulation in relationships will become just as criminal as physical abuse, under the new law.
Coercive or controlling domestic abuse becomes a crime punishable by up to five years in prison from Tuesday, even if it stops short of physical violence.
The new legislation will enable the CPS to bring charges where there is evidence of repeated, or continuous, controlling or coercive behaviour within an intimate or family relationship.
The CPS said abuse can include a pattern of threats, humiliation and intimidation, emotional abuse and manipulation, financial manipulation, lies for gain and will include those who actively support and aid them in the abuse, such as lying to cover up the abuse or actively taking part in the abuse... The government’s change in the law making coercive control a criminal offence is an important step forward. “This behavior can be incredibly harmful in a relationship where one person holds more power than the other, even if on the face of it, this behavior might seem playful, innocuous or loving.
“Being subjected to repeated humiliation, emotional, financial abuse, manipulation and lies can be as harmful as physical abuse, with many victims stating that trauma from psychological abuse had a more lasting impact than physical abuse.”
Cases can be heard in magistrates or crown courts, and the maximum sentence is five years imprisonment. Evidence can include emails, text messages, bank records, witness statements from family and friends ,evidence of isolation, medical records.

Karen Oliver

4/26/2018 10:29:58 pm

The worse thing the government did was make divorce a “ No Blame”thing. I don’t care who you are, one or the other is always to blame, and a marriage or relationship does not just self combust without a reason. If both parties agree to end it then it can be a no blame thing and is handled in a fair and equal manner with both parties in most cases admitting they made a mistake and usually remaining friends or at least on speaking terms. But when one party cheats, uses deception and lies, commits adultery, is abusive either physically or emotionally or financially strips the other party then there is BLAME and it should be made public. That way the next victim has a chance of seeing the truth about how they really are. The way it is at the moment the guilty party gets away with everything and goes on their merry way telling lies and stories of how badly THEY were treated , how They have suffered, how They were the victim and no one can dispute them except the real victim who continues to suffer not only the trauma of being deceived and lied to by someone they trusted and cared about who betrayed that trust , is painted as the abuser , lied about and left floundering in a financial and emotional mess wondering what they did to deserve being treated this way. When they do bring in these laws at least they will have their day in court and the truth will come out. A 5 year jail sentence is not enough for these monsters who deliberately destroy someone simply because they are of no further use to them and have found a new source of supply, they should be stripped of everything and it given to the victim, the other party they cheated with should be named and shamed because they KNEW they were married, living with their spouse and lying to them to carry on the infidelity and their assets should be seized as well as in several cases I know of HE sold all the assets to his cheating companion or to her company, cried poor, his wife got nothing and after the divorce He still had it all through her and if they are like this guy, they should have their residents visa revoked and deported. I think a lot of people are going to come unstuck if this becomes law soon and it will stop others in the future from doing it. Their true nature and character will be exposed and made public. If they can treat someone who obviously loves, trusts, cares and believes them like this then it’s a sure thing they will treat others the same way in everything they do. Once a liar always a liar, they cheat once they will again, about as trustworthy as a viper.
Love is not based on SEX, love is based on respect, trust, honesty.

Alex Jackson

4/27/2018 02:32:58 pm

I am not the only one who agrees with what you said. Neither of them have a clue what what respect, trust, loyalty is, all you have to do is look back at their past, the trail of destruction they have left behind them in both personal relationships and employment history. But they were never to blame, it was always the other person's fault. As for crying poor?, that i believe is what he did, in some documents i have read he stated he had nothing, that he had to sell everything to pay debts so he could not afford to give her any financial support. Strange thing is, once it was all over, he still had two or three bikes and a shed full of expensive equipment and tools. She ended up with a mountain of debt, nothing to sell to clear it and poor health both physical and emotional. Then they both tell some really nasty lies to cover their tracks and they get sympathy and support from people. Hardly seems fair. Let's hope the government brings in the new laws covering emotional, psychological and financial abuse asap. It's time people like this were exposed and the truth about them came out.
No blame divorces are a travesty of justice and all they do is cover up the truth. If you lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery or financially, emotionally or physically abuse your partner/ spouse then it should be made public.
This was sent to me , it was his response to threats of legal action over speaking out over what happened to him. Narcissists and those like them ,try to manipulate and cover up with lies and threats but if you stand up to them they soon back down because they know they have nothing to back up their claims. Like Kings taking out a DVO on his wife, it went to court, she showed up, he didn't and the magistrate threw it out as unfounded with the proof and documents she presented. She called his bluff on it, something he wasn't expecting her to do, he thought she would not show up or contest it and it would be granted, bit of a shock to both of them when she fought back. That in itself shows just what sort of a person he is and what he is capable of. You also have to wonder if she played a part in it. It was a low act on his part but typical of him. So yes, they will try to intimidate and manipulate with lies and threats.

" I was threatened with a lawsuit for defamation of character. I responded by stating, the one bringing the lawsuit has the burden of proof, truth is an absolute defence and i have the proof. In court a lie is perjury and they are the ones who have to worry about that, not me, and i get to cross examine them. The court of public opinion doesn't have the ability to respond to accusations the same as in a court of law. They use lies, accusations and innuendos , when they don't like what i say back then they threatened a lawsuit. I told them to go ahead, i have nothing to hide and i have truth and proof on my side. I never heard from them again."

Jess Franklin

4/27/2018 09:20:53 pm

Hi AJ, I agree, the divorce laws here are really slack and one sided, designed to get through the court system as fast as possible. The respondent has nothing to respond to or counter claim because there is nothing, this means the petitioner can virtually do anything to cause the divorce or have any reason for it without disclosing it. The only time there is any counterclaims is with child custody or distribution of assets, usually a couple's assets are combined so they simply split it down the middle or give the custodial parent the biggest share. If you don't have the money to contest it , which most do not, as in Diannes case, you get nothing. Him claiming he had to sell everything to pay debts was never challenged because she could not afford to.
You brought up something most are not aware of, the DVO he took out. A DVO is a Domestic Violence Order because the petitioner is scared of and has been physically abused by the respondent, and if granted means the respondent is prohibited from going anywhere near the petitioner, where they live or work, or anyone connected to them , if they do they can be arrested. Why on earth he did that is confusing to say the least. She was never abusive or violent to him, never went near his job site, never stalked him or harassed him, didnt know about him screwing and living with Liz. She still trusted him and believed him that he was confused and needed time alone to sort himself out, she gave him emotional and financial support and he was the one who came to see her. So what was the point?. As with the divorce he didn't tell her about the DVO and again it was someone else who called her and told her. She then called the magistrates court to find out. Her solicitor gave her advice and what documents to take and pointed out the potential consequences if she did not contest it, one of which was that she would have a permanent record of being a violent person that would impact on her for life. Your right in what you said, if she hasn't turned up it would have been granted in her absence. Which we think was what they had planned. As it was he didn't attend but i have a feeling he went there, probably with Liz as support and when he saw her they beat a hasty retreat, they didn't expect to see her there. My opinion and that of others is that he didn't want her turning up unexpected either where he was living or at work and finding out that the only thing he was confused about was her finding out the truth about his cheating with Liz as the divorce had not become public then and he didn't want her to find out or cause trouble for him. As it was once the magistrate saw all the emails, text messages etc from him and some were from the day before saying how much he loved her, wait for me etc etc he knew something was not right, So he ruled it as “ Vexatious litigation designed to embarrass ,manipulate and cause distress”, he also stated that he sees quite a lot like it in a situation where the couple is separated. Then he dismissed the application.
Can you imagine how Dianne felt?, Sitting there with all those junkies and abusers waiting to go in. Speaking to her later she said she felt embarrassed, dirty and worthless that at her age she had to defend herself against something like that.

His doing that speaks volumes as to what he really is and i can bet you anything that Liz was a part of it.
What he did or they did was a low despicable act of a person with no morals, conscience , guilt or regard for anyone suffering that caused a lot of pain and kicked her in the guts when she was down, it shows just how far he will go to get what he wants and how much he is prepared to lie to do so.
So when they change the laws here on emotional, psychological and financial abuse it will level the playing field in cases like this. Especially if it means a prison term and all assets of the abuser and their enabler are seized..

Lenore Doherty UK

4/28/2018 01:11:55 pm

Narcissists will discard those who become an inconvenience or obstacle in the way of getting what they want and they will use all and any means possible to do this, nothing is to low an act and lies their first method of choice. Loyalty only goes one way with them, their way.

I always had a feeling there was more to this and am not surprised by what he did.
Trust me, he said,? So she did.. Yeah, Trust him to lie to you, cheat on you, steal from you, destroy your character, your finances and your health. Trust him to throw you away when your no longer needed.
Anyone who up until now was undecided about him,who was still giving him the benefit of the doubt, after reading that has just made up their minds. What a despicable ,deceptive, utterly cruel ,selfish, greedy,immoral act, can openly lie about something so serious to a court,what will he do to you when your not a required or necessary part of his plans anymore.

And i don't think he would have done it on his own, it's usually women who take out DVOs and most of them have a real reason to do so, except the ones who lie and scam to cover up the fact that they did the wrong thing and it's not something he would have come up with on his own,, so you don't have to look far for who suggested it and supported him with it.
Whoever it was who alerted her to it, you did the right thing. You stopped the injustice of a person being branded for life as an abusive violent untrustworthy person.

I hope your Government brings in the new laws on emotional and psychological abuse soon. To much abuse happens undercover and to many people both women and men suffer without the perpetrator being punished, it's time society recognised this and accepted you don't have to be physically hurt to be abused. It has made a significant difference here and the court rulings show that.

“ The cold-hearted way he treated their marriage & divorce highlighted his insensitivity, arrogance, lack of remorse and guilt and superiority complex.”
By Christine Hammond, MS, LMHC, The Exhausted Woman

Max Rosenburg

4/28/2018 03:04:40 pm

Just read the latest comments, not at all surprised by it, its something someone like him or them would do. Am a bit shocked that they would stoop to such a low act. Deliberately lying to give an innocent person a record for being violent and abusive without even thinking about the impact on them is not only damn cruel , immoral and sick but shows just how far he or they will go to cover their tracks and make their stories and lies acceptable. Unfortunately something like this will come back and bite them on the arse for years. Might make others look at him or them a bit differently and show them if he can do this in such a sneaky underhanded way to a person who cared about and supported him just to get what he wants he can do it again to anyone for any reason. As far as trust goes, there is none.

Matthew Reed

4/28/2018 09:51:20 pm

If you have to keep a relationship secret then you shouldn’t be in it. It means you are deceiving someone who obviously doesn’t deserve to be deceived and lied to. It means you are hiding it because you are doing the wrong thing.. But then you knew that or you would not be keeping it a secret.
All I can say is what has already been said. That was a low underhanded thing to do designed to hurt the other person and to keep their relationship a secret regardless of how much it cost the other person. He really must have been worried someone would tell her the truth about what was going on .
I can just imagine how this woman felt sitting in the foyer of a court house with criminals, wife beaters, drug addicts and the scum of society waiting for her name to be called to defend herself of being accused of being violent and abusive. How anyone could put a decent person through that for purely selfish reasons is disgusting..Glad someone had the guts to tell her and she had the courage to stand up to him, it must have crushed her to find out. .
As they say, the truth always comes out and this is something everyone who has contact with them will remember as they could do similar to them at any time..

Marian Lightfoote

4/30/2018 11:33:56 pm

"Sociopaths and narcissists constantly rewrite history, especially after breakups. Instead of facing the shame of their cheating, abuse, deception and lying -- they invent a new reality where they are the victims of you, because you mistreated them, and therefore you deserve any suffering caused by the whole ordeal. Frighteningly enough, they actually seem to believe this story the more they tell it. It sounds crazy, but it's the way their brains work to avoid experiencing things like remorse, guilt, and shame. The worst thing is that they convince others that their delusional stories are real and that they are the victims. This is a reasonable explanation of why he or either of them has never apologized for their actions or tried to repair the horrendous damage they have caused, in their mind they did nothing wrong and to admit they did would involve admitting the truth to not only themselves but to others, to do so would destroy the fantasy world they have invented and that is the one thing they can never do. They lack the courage to face those they have abused because they can never look them in the eyes, they would see who they really are looking back at them. No person has the right to demean or degrade another, irrespective of their issues. We all have choices in life . In the incident of the DVO he had a choice and choose to do it knowing full well it was all a lie and how much suffering it would cause but went ahead and used it as the easy way to keep her from knowing the truth, unfortunately it backfired on him. So instead of her being officially tagged as a violent abusive person for all the world to see, it is now permanently in the court records as being a “ vexatious litigation” brought by him and proven to be lies, which has destroyed his credibility in anything he now does... I am sure this is one secret he hoped would never see the light of day but like all secrets and lies they have a way of being exposed when least expected. Even the most loyal supporter and sympathiser cant ignore the fact that what he did or they did, was a despicable, deceptive cruel act and totally unnecessary, the honorable thing to do would have been to tell the truth and get their relationship out in the open. So you have to ask , Why they had to keep it a secret.? As with the divorce, why hide it? Why keep on spending time with her, confessing his love and asking to be trusted, begging her to wait for him, knowing full well that he had filed for divorce?. The only logical explanation is that they knew what they were doing was wrong and that they would be judged on it so to turn it around on her as the abuser and him as the victim would keep others supporting them and they would be the ones getting the sympathy. All the while knowingly and deliberately painting an innocent person as an abuser and destroying lives. Malignant, disordered narcissistic abusers choose the fastest way to cause as much emotional pain as possible to keep their victim off guard and to make themselves out as the victim, they do not deserve the pity they are given and their abuse cannot be justified." Les hope the laws in Australia are soon brought into line with other countries that have recognised emotional, psychological and financial abuse as a criminal act and worthy of prison time.It will send a very strong message to them and others that they can no longer get away with it.

Colin Payne

5/1/2018 05:48:54 pm

Why did they hide and keep secret their relationship, ?. That’s easy to answer.. Because they know what were doing was wrong!!! That it was deceptive, devious, lying and manipulative. That if others knew the truth they would not get the sympathy and support they wanted but instead would be avoided and vilified. So keep it secret and hidden while they dropped lies about his wife to build up the support. I doubt there was or is any love involved in it. She obviously knew the possibility of suckering her kid’s father into leaving his wife and family was doubtful so she hid from him the fact she had a backup in the other guy. He knew that he had almost used up his source of supply with his wife and was looking for a new source and she was handy. Neither cared about the damage they did to either of these people or their family. It was all about them and what they wanted. So they kept it up while he milked the last drops from his wife and if by chance, the kids father had agreed to what she wanted then he still had his wife who knew nothing about his cheating and lying to go back to .The DVO was to stop her getting close enough to find out the truth if anyone told her or she got tired of waiting for him to “ find himself” and went looking for him either where he was living or at work. Simple logic. . I don’t know any of these people but I have known others like them and I can guarantee they still feel no shame or guilt, still do not accept responsibility, still play the innocent victims and still insist they did nothing wrong, unfortunately for them the facts tell a different story. . You only hide and keep secret what you’re doing if you know you’re doing something wrong and that is the bottom line in all this. Typical behaviour of selfish, greedy, manipulating, lying cheaters who don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves and what they want regardless of who gets hurt. . As for an apology or any attempt to fix things? Hell will freeze over first, they don’t have the courage to admit to themselves or anyone else that what they did was wrong, ,it would blow their story and lies wide open, so its deny, deny and deny until eventually to them it becomes the truth.
The sooner they change the laws on emotional, psychological and financial abuse to being a criminal act, the better people like this lady and others will be because it is criminal what they do. You can call them a narcissist or anything you want, to me they are just simply criminals and should be treated as such.
This sort of selfish, greedy manipulating behaviour is wrong in more ways than you can count and causes more pain and destruction than you realise and you’re accepting their excuses and lies helps to make it worse. It is covert bullying on a grand scale by so called adults who should know better and if bullying can cause a child to take their own life what the hell do you think it does to an adult?. They are not immune to this sort of abuse, they are just better at hiding how they feel, then when they take their own lives in desperation to stop the pain, confusion, the accusations, the lies, unlike when a child does it is seen as a cry for help, they are classed as unstable and the bully gets to say, “ see, I told you so “and gets even more sympathy, no one bothers to dig into why they did it, no one takes their own life without a bloody good reason. So remember, your actions by supporting these sorts of people contribute to the bullying. They have lied to you, they have manipulated you, they have fooled you, and so who else have they done this to?.It’s not a one off thing, it’s a pattern. .

Julia Michaelson USA

5/1/2018 11:08:35 pm

A lie doesn’t become the truth.
A wrong doesn’t t become a right.
A lie, a wrong action or any type of abuse doesn’t become acceptable nor should it be ignored just because it’s accepted by the majority or by one single person, this includes you. To do so is to condone the lie ,the wrong doing and keep it going.
If an action that can hurt another is kept secret or hidden it’s because it’s wrong and the perpetrators know it.
True Friendship or Love is not built on or sustainable if it’s based on lies, secrets and wrong doing.
It takes a decent honest person to admit to doing the wrong thing, to seek out the one they hurt and tell them, even if it means their apology is rejected, as it shows they can at least admit to themselves the truth, only a dishonest person ignores the truth.
That, to all you misguided people is the bottom line and the truth.

Helen Turner

5/2/2018 01:40:18 pm

There are so many sites on Narcissists out there, from those of professionals to victims. So I am sharing a few from different sites. How could so many different people from all walks of life say the same thing and have experienced the same treatment and there still be those who support and believe these immoral abusive individuals. Its way over due for people to realise that abuse is not always physical and hopefully the laws will soon change to include this behaviour as a criminal offence.
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A Narcissist thinks they have the right to mistreat, abuse and hurt you but you don’t have the right to stand up for yourself. They are allowed to criticize, be cruel and insensitive, lie about you , treat you like garbage, blame you for everything, and ignore your existence when they move on to their next source of supply. But how dare you point out their abusive behaviour, expose their lies and cheating or say anything negative about them. You will be accused of being jealous and trying to destroy the relationship they are now in. Their behaviour while with you suddenly becomes all your fault, you are crazy, a drama queen, you abused them, and your an all round horrible cruel person. All because you stood up for yourself by not accepting and tolerating their crap and lies. They never blame themselves or see their horrific behaviour.
Nothing will ever be their fault. They will never be there for you, ever. They will always be the “ tragic” victim. They will never see you as a person who has needs, who feels pain and rejection, who gives love, everything is all about them, and you are simply a means to an end. When they finally move on leaving you an emotional confused wreck they will invent stories and lie about you. While you do everything possible for your relationship, they do nothing.
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AND THE OSCAR FOR THE BEST ACTOR GOES TO............ THE NARCISSIST......
FOR HIS IMPECABLE PORTRAYAL OF ......... A VICTIM.
Written by Alice Marques Ģēģers
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Under the Veneer of Charm is a Deceitful, Conniving, and Soft-Spoken Manipulator
"It’s not nice to call names. But when it comes to narcissists, calling them out is really a matter of survival for those dealing with their abuse, as well as for those who don’t understand the profound harm they do. All narcissists wear a mask, or false persona. And when you strip away the narcissist mask you find weakness and vulnerability that would be pitiable if it weren’t so astonishingly vicious.
Julie Hall. The Narcissist Family Blog.
Narcissists have no sense of limits; they live their lives without borders of decency, compassion or conscience. Their speed on life’s highway is full throttle even when their malicious, selfish and careless behaviour psychologically, emotionally and financially harm the lives of others, including their own family. Their greed and selfishness knows no boundaries, it’s all about them and they will use every deceptive move and lie they can to ensure they get what they want.
Dr Linda Martinez-Lewi

Sharon T Lawson.

5/3/2018 11:41:34 pm

I don’t think that most people realise that the laws have changed in Australia as far as work place bullying, harassment, emotional and psychological abuse, manipulation, victimisation and sexual harassment goes, they were changed quite awhile ago and any of the above and more are now a criminal offence. Ask your union rep or look it up yourself, you no longer have to put up with a narcissistic abuser in the work place.
They are in the process of working out the legal issues and penalties for school yard bullies or any juvenile that uses emotional and psychological abuse on another child because of the recent juvenile suicides caused by this sort of abuse. I think they are talking about the parents being responsible and facing hefty fines if the child bully is under a certain age and if above 16, but don’t quote me on this, faces criminal charges.
It would simply be an easy stretch to include, emotional, psychological, financial abuse, manipulation, bullying in a domestic situation on the statutes along with physical abuse. I agree with what has been discussed lately, it’s long overdue and actually causes more damage in the long term than physical abuse especially if it results in a victims suicide or attempted suicide, the impact on the family is horrific and can in itself cause emotional issues, especially with children.
Be they a Narcissist or just a sick greedy selfish person is irrelevant, because they have shown blatant disregard for a spouse or partner’s welfare, well being and financial future. It is time they were forced to recognise that their actions are not acceptable in society and be punished for what they do with the full force of the law.
After reading this site and checking out some of the facts, documents etc, those that I could get access to, finding those people who were willing to talk to me about it etc, I can say with certainty that if the laws were in place when this man aided by his mistress had committed the things they have, him in particular would have faced a jail sentence and most likely had his permanent visa revoked, she probably would have been fined, assets seized and given to the victim as compensation. And then the others they have done this or similar to in the past could bring their own charges as i believe his wife is not the only one, there have been others in the past both in a domestic relationship and work place related who have had similar experiences with one or both of them. They have been lucky up to now but they should realise things are changing and next time it could be and probably will be a totally different outcome.

Alex Jackson

5/4/2018 01:25:40 pm

Well done, that is a very clear and straight forward paralegal answer to questions a few have been asking.
The reference to her being his “ mistress “ is something no one else has come straight out and said.
He deceived, cheated on and lied to his wife for well over a year before someone finally told her what was going on, it’s not as if those around them didn’t know because they did. Then at the same time she was the “ mistress” of another married man, her daughter’s father. They kept up the lies and deceit until they had what they wanted and had driven his wife to a suicide attempt. There is no way you could get me to believe that they didn’t know what they were doing and what the damage would be and they get the support and pity for being the victims? Unbelievable... .
That in itself is bad enough but if you look back in their past you can see the same patterns over and over again. Cheating on their spouses/ partners, lies and secrets to cover it up, emotional abuse and tearing families apart, financial abuse by stripping everything off a spouse or suing them for child support for a child that wasn’t theirs, , putting the blame on others . All without any compassion or regard for the damage they do and of course, they are never to blame.. . She knew both those men were married and!! Living with their wives and families, not separated or divorced yet she went ahead and had affairs with both of them, he knew he was committing adultery, knew he was deceiving and lying to his wife, knew what it would do when she found out, knew he was taking everything she owned, knew he was leaving her destitute and in debt, knew she had done nothing wrong to deserve this treatment. And that’s just the things we know about.
Their employment history is not much better, using , manipulating and abusing co- workers , lies, cheating, claiming others accomplishments as their own, causing drama and confusion that left the companies reeling and that list goes on and on as well.
Then this engine scam of his that has cost people their homes and money as in his first wife’s father and so many others , claiming he designed it when he didn’t, that list of those he has conned goes on and on as well.
You can’t ignore the past especially when they keep repeating it. How many others are there that have not come forward? I can guarantee there are a few who from being embarrassed to admit to being conned to being scared their wife or husband will find out, so they keep quiet.
The only way to stop this is to change the laws because anyway you look at it, this sort of behaviour is not only immoral but its premeditated and its criminal. Do either of them feel any guilt for the damage they have done, the lives they have destroyed, the lies they have told to get what they wanted?, What do you think?.
It's so easy for the Narcissist's followers to be fooled by the Narc, but so difficult to convince them that they have been fooled !

Max Rosenburg

5/4/2018 11:39:02 pm

All true and unless the powers that be see this and change the laws, they and those like them will keep getting away with it. Causing destruction to others lives without a shred of guilt or remorse. Leaving families to pick up the pieces. Nothing they do is random, a mistake or by chance. It’s pretty well thought out and cover stories and lies are at the ready. Hope the laws change soon to include emotional, psychological and financial abuse of a spouse or partner. I know a lot of people including myself will be lobbying for it. It happens far too often and they should face some sort of charges and be made to pay financial compensation. That NO BLAME divorce has caused this in a way because they can do what they like and get off scott free, tell their lies and no one is the wiser as there is no evidence on file to check. Its just their word against each other and the perp is so damn convincing they get believed and the victim is punished and left to suffer. I think in this case the court of public opinion has given its decision. . .

Liz Carmichael

5/5/2018 02:01:32 pm

This is interesting and if you put it with the letter that Marian Lightfoote posted on the new page that Dianne Wright wrote, it makes even more sense. There is a lot of information out there from both professional people who treat the victims of narcissistic abuse to personal horror stories of the victims. I think the observation made by Alex Jackson is correct, there are more victims than anyone realises who never come forward because of embarrassment, personal reasons or they are so confused and have been convinced they were the cause of what happened, not the narcissistic abuser. .
"Over many years of treating and evaluating victims of narcissists, one issue that recurs is the deep shame people feel when they realize they have been duped. But anyone can be duped by a narcissist. If you are a kind, loving, sensitive person who knows how to love, you can be duped, too.
It is difficult to really wrap your head around the fact that some people are not capable of feeling love and empathy. (though they are good at "acting" the part when it suits them).You can imagine or know from your own experience that this is particularly difficult if the narcissist is your parent, partner, spouse, friend or someone you deeply admire and love.
Given that any of us can be duped by a narcissist, it’s important to be aware of the people in our world, our culture, our place of employment and our families. Don’t be hard on yourself just because you know how to love, how to give respect, show compassion or admire a person. That is a gift, a gift the narcissist does not possess. But increased awareness may save you from the devastating and crippling ramifications that come with knowing a narcissist.”
Karyl McBride , PhD
Narcissists will never reveal their true lives to you.
Saying they lead double lives is a huge understatement. They lead dozens of lives.
They are whoever they need to be to get what they want.
They are a different person to everyone. They have a well devised history and image they are trying to portray.
The only common thing about all of them is that no one truly knows who they are.

Marian Lightfoote

5/6/2018 03:43:41 pm

What they and others have done may not be classed as a criminal act in law at this point in time but you’re certainly right in stating that the ( Court of public opinion) has rendered its verdict. I am sure that both of them have read everything posted and the comments made and realise that they are no longer regarded as the innocent victims in this by the majority. The fact that they still deny any wrong doing or accept any blame speaks for itself, not only in this instant but in all the dramas and pain they have previously caused. To them none of it happened and if it did, it wasn’t their fault.
If you tell yourself something enough times, eventually you convince yourself its right, this not only applies to them and those like them but also to their supporters and unfortunately to their victims, as the journal entry I posted on the new page section shows.
Anyone who has read it and that includes them knows the truth, the willingness to accept it is up to each of us.
Narcissists are just as capable of showing kindness as they are capable of their malevolent behaviour, but what truly sets them apart is the price that comes with their kindness and you will pay a hefty price. They do nothing good unless they can see a payback for it and they will remind you of their goodness and that you owe them when they feel the time is right. ..
Narcissists will be kind to you only to get something they need from you later, be it money, sex, subservience, support, sympathy or worse.
If a narcissist comes to your assistance, know that they are doing it for a purpose.
A narcissist has no sort of a moral compass.
They'll do as they please and will never feel responsible for the pain they have caused to others.
If they sense any sort of blame coming their way, they'll start redirecting it immediately.
They love to shift the blame to others and have no understanding of what an apology is.
You know the worst part about it all?
They aren't ever sorry for the things they do , the damage they do or the way they make you feel.
If you press them on the fact that they're unapologetic for their malevolent behaviour, they'll deflect, push it off onto you or every and anyone else who happens to be handy. An admission of fault would shatter that image they've carefully cultivated.
Let's be real. Everyone lies. We all do it. Some are little lies; others are big, big lies.
But while everyone lies, not everyone is a liar.
A liar is a real special breed. They lie pathologically, constantly, and sometimes without even realizing it.
A narcissistic liar will lie so much that their lies are what form their reality.
In living a life of lies, their own minds become conditioned to accepting their own behaviour.
Narcissists will lie about you and others. They can’t help themselves.
But one thing is for sure, they are liars.
The lies serve as a tool to manipulate a reality that doesn't serve them the way they'd like.
When caught in a lie, they will try to manipulate you. They make you question reality so you will continue to look at them as a source of strength, when they really are just liars.
Narcissists live their lives in constant fear. What do they fear most?.Every single thing they did to you that caused suffering, They fear being abandoned, controlled, criticised, smeared, used and stolen from and worst of all ... being exposed-.. To you, to the world but worst of all, to themselves.
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"Bystanders need to LEARN THE SIGNS of narcissism. These people are too common for anyone to be STILL claiming ignorance. It's not that hard to detect them, if you're close enough to have an opinion.
Open your eyes and consider the possibility that the person is a covert, clever, toxic narcissist who is tricking you into not believing the victim ... people TEND to blame the victim, because blaming a narcissistic person is risky to themselves."
~ Jan Van Den Berg

Elenna Jacobson-Wotan

5/7/2018 09:39:57 pm

As a victim of narcissistic abuse both emotional and financial , it took me many years to accept the fact that the only wrong doing on my part was to be myself and expect those I gave my love and support to be honest, truthful, faithful and caring. I have endeavoured to help and assist those who also have been subjected this horror to see the truth and to stop blaming themselves and believing the lies the narcissist has conditioned them to believe. I have included part of an article I hope gives an insight to those still floundering to understand what happened and to stop blaming themselves for being human , to give love is a joy , to use that love as a tool to manipulate you is evil and something they will have to answer for one day.
The lady who wrote this has been an inspiration to me and many others both male and female.
The day will come when the laws are changed to recognise this abuse as criminal; it may be too late for many of us but will protect those who come after us, because it simply will not stop unless we take a stand to stop it.
The sooner we recognize that there are disordered fakers among us, and call out behavior that is not normal, the sooner we can start to prevent damage to ourselves and our loved ones. It's about protecting us from unimaginable harm.
Prevention and support of victims is paramount. Silent Bystanders are a HUGE part of the problem. It leaves victims isolated while condoning aka normalizing the abhorrent behavior of the perpetrator.
“The narcissist carefully selects the most indifferent and heartbreaking way to abandon you. They want you to selfdestruct, cleaning up any loose ends as they continue the grooming process of their new victim, ( source of supply). They destroy you not only as a way to reassure themselves that their new target is better than you and to show the new target just how unstable you are by the confusing way you are acting. But most importantly they destroy you because they are indifferent to you and to cover up the horrific way they have treated you.
They despise you capacity for empathy and love, qualities they have to pretend to have every single day, to everyone in their lives. To destroy you is to temporarily silence the nagging reminder that you are better than them and to ignore the truth of the emptiness that is their soul.”
Faye Armitage.
“PSYCOPATH FREE “

Jesse Franklin

5/8/2018 02:04:07 pm

A friend who is a professional therapist and reads the site sent this to me with the comment: Some of the more printable things I have heard over the years from different clients in therapy sessions, it is abuse and should have been made a criminal act a long time ago. The damage caused by a narcissist is horrific and people just can’t see that until they experience it.
the term narcissism was something I had heard of but did not fully understand until I had the misfortune of becoming involved with one of these toxic individuals.
Premeditated deceit and lies.
They lead double lives that’s for sure, and I’ve never met a narc that didn’t cheat.
NO ONE CAN MAKE THIS STUFF UP. NOBODY.
Women do this, too...Just so that no one forgets
. Its domestic terrorism and bullying, but people can’t see that.
Lies, emotional abuse, and triangulation are all activities narcissists engage in, because it doesn't leave physical evidence of abuse. It isn’t harmless, it is a pervasive pattern of emotional abuse and bullying..
I always say to people, not to expect to understand unless they have been there.
It was all faked, but I fell for it. The Superficial charm . Was so good at making a lie become the truth. Faked his high morals. Pretended like or love to get what he wanted.
lies and manipulative. Showed no remorse or sympathy. Had to win at all costs. Never apologised. Never accepted blame, always the victim.
Claimed my ideas and achievements as her own. If I objected I was patted on the head with a , “ yes, I know you helped”. I felt like a fool.
The most dangerous thing about a narcissist is their lack of empathy, but they fake it extremely well.
He was so charming, believable, and vulnerable, he seemed so loving, honest, truthful and sincere, but it’s a fake.
I came here for help to understand why I hurt so much and why he is getting sympathy and support and telling everyone I abused him. Why don’t they believe me..
They always play the victim.
Why do narcissists see themselves as victims, no matter how horribly they have treated someone else.
The abuse and conditioning didn’t happen overnight, it was well thought out planned process, I can see that now.
She was so good at distorting the truth. Then I found out Narcissistic Manipulators are compulsive and pathological liars.
He absolved himself from any responsibility in his continual failed relationships by putting the blame on his partners and I believed him until that included me .
Its sooo difficult not to feel sorry for her . She acts like a hurt child.
He acted hurt, shocked and disbelieving when I pointed out to him that what he was doing was really hurting me.
playing the innocent victim to gain sympathy is the only way he knew how to feel good about himself because in his strange world he never did anything wrong, it was always someone else’s fault. Including mine for telling the truth to him.
If I called him out on his lies or questioned his stories , he put on his poor little innocent me face or got so indignant he walked away with a “ if that’s how you feel” remark or just straight out cried real tears. And I was the one who felt guilty.

Scott Alexander

5/9/2018 06:58:25 pm

So we know the truth, we know what they are, what they have done, the lies, cheating, stealing, manipulation, abuse both in their personal lives and work lives and we know they will continue to use these tactics to get what they want and destroy lives in the process without feeling any guilt or remorse. We all know its a criminal act and its time the laws reflected that. So how to put a stop to it?. That is up to you and everyone else.It's your choice to stand up to them and say , enough is enough, to stop believing the grand stories, the sympathy stories and straight out lies, but most importantly , to tell them you don't believe a word they say is putting them on notice that you and others are watching them and will pull them up at every opportunity when they start their manipulations , abuse and lies.
So stop procrastinating and do what you know is right, sign the petitions calling for the laws to change, warn others of those who have been shown to be narcissistic parasites , do you bit to stop it now, dont leave it up to others to carry all the burden.
“Sociopathy is the inability to process emotional experiences,including love and caring. Except when such experiences can be calculated as a coldly intellectual task. A sociopath/ narcissist can and does pretend to have these feeling with such conviction it's almost impossible not to believe them. But to the sociopath / narcissist there is nothing permanent or genuine in this, they are giving you what you want to get what they want , they see nothing wrong with this, to them it's a fair trade and when they move on, which they will, the fact that you are hurt and confused is your fault for not treating it as a temporary arrangement as they do. They rationalise the fact that you are financially keeping them as them being paid for services they are providing to you, most notably, sex. . About one in twenty-five individuals are sociopathic, meaning, essentially, that they do not have a conscience. It is not that this group fails to grasp the difference between good and bad; it is that the distinction fails to limit their behavior...The ultimate manipulation is to kill someone, and sociopathy is murderous in a psychological sense—there’s a kind of soul-murder going on." — Dr. Martha Stout

The Other Side of Infidelity
Kevin Skinner, PhD, LMFT, CSAT, EMDR-C

It’s since been determined that trauma can be a result from betrayal in a relationship. As therapists, we call it Betrayal Trauma.
In an effort to learn more about the trauma caused by betrayal, my colleague and I teamed up to create one of the first, if not the very first, assessments looking at betrayal trauma. That was nearly 12 years ago, and since that time, we have had over5,000 betrayed spouses and partners from all over the world complete our assessment. (You can take the assessment here)
https://bloomforwomen.com/the-other-side-of-infidelity/Manage

Marian Lightfoote

5/10/2018 11:53:10 pm

Part of an article i read recently, it explains a lot and after talking with colleagues about it ,all agree. It's too long to post in its entirety so have sent to Jess who will put it on the NEW PAGE for those who are interested , it also includes a link to the website for other articles.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A NARCISSIST DISCARDS YOU??
THE WHY!.
Why do narcissists discard people? Narcissists get bored very easily. Initially, they are intoxicated by the chase and the conquest of a new partner, and they are prone to magical thinking and idealization, which means they often believe all of their problems can be solved by "the right person." It has nothing to do with you or how great you are, though. Their goals are all selfish. They aren't looking for a partnership or trying to build a life with someone or anything of the sort. They are looking for a person who will do things - solely for them. This is, of course, not reasonable, or possible, or realistic in any way. No one can fix another person. Dating or marrying someone does not make a psychological disorder go away. It does not magically erase the past or turn a person into someone else. Of course, the narcissist is in total denial of any of these problems in the first place. They simply believe that the problem has always been the other person or people in their lives. Indeed, the "line" they often use to hook a new victim is baited with story after story of themselves as victims of horrible cruelty, indifference and malice at the hands of previous significant others.
IDEALIZATION AND DEVALUATION.
When narcissists meet this "new soulmate," their hopes are very high that this new person is "The One." This is the person who will be the perfect accessory, the perfect glue to hold the narcissist together, the perfect soft place to fall, the perfect servant, the perfect reflection of how wonderful the narcissist is, the perfect fit for the narcissist's yawning empty space inside... whatever the narcissist is looking for. This person is themselves seen, at first, as perfect.
Unfortunately, no one actually is perfect, and the narcissist's expectations and goals are totally irrational and completely unreasonable, besides. When this new soulmate reveals that they are nothing more than a regular person with flaws and problems and shortcomings and -- worst of all -- needs, the narcissist often becomes disillusioned and disappointed. This person is not the perfect soulmate the narcissist thought they were, and obviously, that's because the person is a failure and a liar and a fraud. How dare you misrepresent yourself as perfect?! You tricked the narcissist! This is where the devaluation starts.
You've betrayed the narcissist by not being perfect, by being nothing but a regular human being and make no mistake about it, that is exactly how they feel: betrayed. As far as they can see it, you lied and manipulated and tricked them, so they are within their rights to tear you down about that - and everything else. And they will. You were supposed to tend and cater to every one of the narcissist's needs and wants but you didn't because you are obviously an evil, selfish, inconsiderate monster who does not care about others.
Narcissists see other people's needs -- even basic needs, as a direct threat to their own. How can such a self-centered, scheming individual be their perfect partner? Worse, you actually expect things from them!? How selfish can you possibly be?? This is not the relationship the narcissist thought it was, you are not who they thought you were, and rather than realizing that their perception of people as well as their ideas about what relationships are all totally wrong and warped beyond recognition, they blame you. You lied. You tricked them. You are a fake and a manipulator. On and on and on. Until of course, you do something that suddenly wins their admiration again (like winning an award they can vicariously receive some praise or recognition for by being associated with you). Or until they want something from you. Then the seduction campaign begins anew, until they again tire of it and decide you're a lying evil manipulator once more.
This idealization/devaluation cycle can go on for a very long time; in some instances, it goes on for years. Empaths in particular have a seemingly inexhaustible well of emotion the narcissist can sponge off of, thus keeping the narcissist engaged for quite a while. It's a match made in hell.

Julie Cavanagah

5/11/2018 03:59:46 pm

I so totally agree with what everyone has said and the article posted on the new page really hit home. After so many years it still stumps me as to how they can con so many people and how people can let themselves get conned by these low life, blood sucking parasitic scum. .
Divorce and Family courts are useless, they are dismissive and invalidating. They are a playground for any abuser who can come up with any plausible lie that’s never challenged, so you don’t stand a chance. A narcissist can get away with the most horrible forms of abuse and they know it. By the time you have gone through the process you are a mess, the longer it drags on the worse you are made to look and the more you are emotionally abused, not just by the abuser but by the courts as well.
That’s why so many people just give up and stop fighting for their rights and the truth. It’s the only way you can preserve your sanity.
The laws need to be changed to where blame is put on the abuser, where their lies, cheating, manipulation, financial abuse , emotional abuse and or physical abuse is brought out into the open and they are shown and branded for who and what they are. The names of those they have been having extramarital affairs should be made public and the assets of both the cheating husband or wife as well as the person they are cheating with should be examined to prevent them hiding assets. The court system is flawed and set up to fail for the victims. If enough people demand change it will happen, even solicitors agree that the laws on domestic abuse, divorce ,child custody and financial support is a failure and is set up to benefit the wrong doer. .

Madison Donnally

5/12/2018 01:40:56 pm

Don't even try to get a malignant narcissist to understand what they have done, its a waste of time. They will never understand or admit they did anything wrong, to do so would destroy their fake little world the have made up where they are always the victim.You are the abuser and liar and they simply took what they earned and deserved.
Criminalising emotional ,psychological and financial abuse, making the penalties similar to physical abuse in a relationship,where they do jail time and permanently have a criminal record that can be checked by prospective new partners and their families as well as the companies they apply for positions with , just might be enough to send them slithering back under their rock.
People are beginning to accept that this does happen and recognise the damage it causes as real. That these immoral selfish greedy subhuman species are among us and to know the signs to spot them. Past actions are the key to this , if they have done it before then they will do it again. This is where the laws need to change to reflect this instead of covering it up, both in the clarification of the law on emotional and financial abuse and manipulation in a intimate relationship , through to victimization , manipulation and bullying in the workplace. A narcissist does not stop at manipulating just those in their family but everyone they come in contact with to different degrees, it depends on what they want from you. How one person perceives a narcissist is different to how another will. Like a chameleon they change colour to reflect what each person wants to see, so stop being fooled by them as the courts are at the moment, this should also be reflected in the divorce laws, the “ no blame” rule is perfect for the narcissist because they know that they can do whatever they like and it will never be an issue in a divorce.
From what i have read on here it appears that these two individuals have gotten away with acts of emotional and psychological abuse, financial abuse, manipulation and lies for a very long time and are so adept at it that no one questions them or has seen the inconsistencies between them being the victim as they claim and so many others being the cause. If the laws were different it would put a completely different slant on their tales of woe. So hopefully common sense will prevail and the laws will be amended to reflect what up to now has been an escape route for narcissists and those like them.
So until they do, take care, check out the facts, don’t believe the victim line until its been proved, talk to previous employers, talk to previous partners, friends and family, get both sides of the story. From what i have read on this site, its not vindictive victimisation of them, its straight out facts, documents , emails, text messages as proof, from everyone they have had contact with over the years from wives and partners , family members and friends to coworkers. Can so many people be wrong?. Why would so many different people lie about them?.Could so many people have victimized them?,
Change the laws and the questions will be answered and the lies exposed. Because if just half of what is on this site was presented to a court they would not stand a chance to lie their way out of it.

Alex Jackson

5/15/2018 03:19:25 pm

The latest posts have caused a bit of a discussion with everyone agreeing with them. The more that comes out the worst it is for them and your right about any court action, if it had occurred neither of them had a leg to stand on, its too damn bad the laws were not changed to cover this at the time but when they are i got a feeling them and others like them will be ducking for cover. A good solicitor will punch holes in their stories and show them up as being pure fabrications or lies in other words. Lies which most people around them see now and a few feel a bit guilty for backing them and foolish for being taken in. The more information passed on the better for those in the future. This website has gone a long way and is being noticed by quite a few professional people, i also hear its made it into a few recognised publications on narcissism with several official sites asking for and given permission to use the contents of this site as reference points, . :)

J Grahame

5/15/2018 04:18:54 pm

If your having problems with someone like this at work, like i was, its worth reading and giving to your supervisor or boss to read. Its a long article so may have to put in two posts. Bur take the time to read it, its well worth it.
Narcissists don’t think that normal rules of decency and morality apply to them. They have no qualms in intimidating and harassing their employees or co-workers and making their lives miserable. Taking credit for another’s work, blaming others for their own mistakes, outbursts of rage, jealousy when other workers are better or smarter than they are themselves, are all commonplace. Narcissists pretend well. They often appear to be charming and considerate but it’s the covert put downs and subtle digs that often go unnoticed by many.
If a narcissist is in a job that they cannot do very well, they will resent their co-workers who can do the job so much better and these feelings of ‘someone being able to do the job better,’will give the narcissist a valid reason to target them.
The person being bullied may feel intimidated, offended and unjustifiably criticized. The workplace bully abuses their co-workers motivated by their own insecurities and selfishness. Their desire to succeed is foremost in their minds. In order to achieve their goal they will trample on anyone who they see as competition. Bullying in the workplace can take many different forms such as:
Discrediting someone’s reputation with lies and gossip.
Sabotaging a colleague’s work.
Isolation / ostracism.
Refusing to answer their telephone calls or emails.
Being regularly undermined.
Failure to provide the necessary information, equipment, tools for the task in hand.Withholding important information such as deadlines, meetings and social gatherings.
Threats of job loss.
Being rude and talking down to colleagues.
Stealing and then accusing others of the theft.
Having your right to training or promotion denied.
Verbal abuse.
Unfair treatment.
Reacts to criticism with denial and blame shifting.
Moves on to a new target once their present target has left.
Mobbing is an insidious form of psychological abuse committed by a group of people and has devastating consequences. Studies have proven that people in a group will behave in a manner that they would never do alone. Normal common decency is cast aside and someone who was once a valued member of a group, is shunned and ostracised. The person is excluded from work meetings, social events and their very presence is not recognised. They are often falsely accused of wrongdoings and find themselves the subject of gossip and slander. People find themselves being attacked by their co-workers, superiors and subordinates. Over a period of time, possibly weeks or months, this form of abuse will chip away at someone’s dignity and their self-respect. We have to remember that human nature dictates that we have an inherent need to belong. Although the scars left by this particular form of abuse are not visible, they are long lasting and more painful than physical wounds. Long term ostracism often results in alienation, low self-esteem, depression and physical illness. Shunning is an act of aggression which can have deadly consequences on the target. There will be those in the workplace setting who may not take an active role in bullying a target but they cannot shirk responsibility for their inaction. Their failure to take a stand, their lack of integrity and their inaction has enabled the abuse to continue. The longer their behaviour continues, the harder it is to bring it to an end. Suggestions for those who are being bullied or harassed:
If the problems cannot be sorted out informally talk to…
Management
Human Resources (HR) department
Trade union representative
If harassment continues most countries provide legal action through employment tribunals. It is not advisable to turn to your abusers for their approval. Choose to be in the company of people with morals and integrity, people who have whatever it takes to stand up against the crowd, to stand up for honesty and human decency. Abuse is often directed at one specific target and may go unnoticed by management and colleagues. In some cases, management may be at the helm of the abuse in an effort to force the target to resign.
When things go wrong, don’t expect the narcissist to accept the blame. It’s not going to happen. It’s got to be someone else’s fault. You may think because you are efficient at your job and have great results, that the narcissistic boss will be thankful. They won’t. It’s a reflection on them, you work for them and they trained you to do the job. Your outstanding contribution will all be down to them so don’t waste your time trying to convince them otherwise.Don’t be fooled into becoming ‘friends’ with the narcissistic boss or co-worker. Their view on friendship is totally different from a

J Grahame

5/15/2018 04:22:48 pm

Their view on friendship is totally different from a normal person’s understanding of what friendship really is. If they are being friendly, it is because they want something from you. If you are of no use to them, they don’t want your friendship. Don’t go down that route.
The narcissist boss will obtain narcissistic supply by denying their workers their entitlements. Don’t expect them to abide by rules or regulations. Normal rules and regulations don’t apply to them. A good boss will have respect for their workers and should quickly notice if there is someone been bullied in the workplace.
Possible signs of bullying may include:
A drop in the standard of an employee’s work for no obvious reason.
Long term sick leave due to stress.
Employee seeking early retirement.
Succession of people leaving employment unexpectedly.
Some employers will not acknowledge that there is a problem in the workforce and fail to address it as they should, and may even try to conceal it. They should note that a happy workforce is a productive one and that failing to address bullying may have a profound effect on the business as a whole.
There’s a big difference between a firm hand and an iron fist. Employees can be motivated by being valued and encouraged rather than through fear. This is what separates the good boss from the bad.
Written by Anne McCrea
Narcissistic and Emotional Abuse, Shattering The Illusion is now available on Amazon.
Amazon UK
Amazon US

Helen Turner

5/16/2018 04:28:02 pm

I have taken the following articles off other sites, as has been stated all the sites on narcissism are easily linked together and this site is linked to quite a few others. They have both gained a reputation in quite a few countries and not for anything good or worthwhile.
With Narcissists you are ALWAYS kept out of the loop. So much so that they will be leading secret lives you know nothing about.
Everything they do is a one-way street solely focused on their self-gratification, with zero concern for you. Oh sure, once in a while they are excellent at pretending concern.....it's just a very convincing ACT, with them simply going through the motions.
So when they are ready to discard you, it will come out of the blue, as they prefer to line up a new supply of attention before discarding you. Nothing gives them more of a thrill than leading someone on.........it's what experts on narcissistic abuse call Dupers' Delight. One can easily see how much they enjoy their Dupers' Delight by the giant smirk they have a hard time suppressing.
They also brag to their entourage about the new supply they are grooming. It's one of those open secrets only you are left out of the loop on, because none of their entourage will show enough character or conscience to clue you in. This is very common in the workplace where the narcissist sets up his or her own group of followers who systematically back the narcissist up while he or she is using a co worker to advance themselves with lies ,theft of ideas and taking credit for their work.
Once you may have felt like the most important person in the world to the narcissist, but when they're finished with you, either in an intimate relationship or as a easy step up the corporate ladder, they cast you aside. They may have taken all your love, money ,respect,dignity, pride, stolen your ideas and destroyed your career but have no trouble with discarding you and replacing you with their next source of supply.
Now that you're totally depleted you are of no use to a narcissist, and so there's no reason to keep you around. "
~ Lindsay Dodgson
"Narcissists can never really love anyone. Every relationship they have is transactional, meaning they are always looking into what they can get out of it. Sooner or later, they will suck their partner dry of money, enthusiasm, self-esteem, or all three, and they discard them without looking back.
The same story repeats itself.
They are obsessed with the idealised image of themselves, which they believe to be superior to everybody else. They are deeply miserably people who are eternally bored, so they create an inflated version of themselves in their minds, giving them a false sense of superiority.
Small spats which all normal couples go through turn into never-ending circular arguments with narcissists, because they only see fault in others.
"They are perfect in their mind," Shannon Thomas, a licensed clinical social worker and author of the book "Healing from Hidden Abuse," told Business Insider. "So when we're trying to have a normal back and forth about how we're going to work through these bumps, psychological abusers will be very resistant to that, because there's 'nothing wrong with them.'"
~ Lindsay Dodgson, Business Insider.
One of the hardest things about coping with a narcissist is accepting that the person you love, and who you thought loved you, is not a loving person after all.
Whether this person is your spouse, your parent or your child, recognising the narcissistic traits in them can be extremely difficult and painful, especially when you’ve been in a relationship with them for a long time, if not your entire life.
Facing the reality that your loved one is not who you thought they were or even who you thought they should be can be too much to cope with. It is often easier to believe the lies the narcissist tells you, that you are the one who is making life difficult, that you are not doing a good enough job or that you are not trying hard enough.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/…/acceptance-is-key-dealing…
"Nothing good can ever come from an evil act. If you want a marriage to have a chance at a happy ending, you cannot acquire a marriage on a foundation made of lies, deception, selfishness, and devastation of others." ~ EmotionalAffair .org

Matt Reed

5/16/2018 09:24:10 pm

Taken from other sites and its all so very very true. It reinforces what everyone has been posting and is especially pertinent to those named on this site.
Narcopaths are leaches seeking out narcissistic supply from their hosts.
The hosts are sucked dry of their life’s blood, their kindness, empathy, generosity, love, optimism, money and joy.
They leach off you and your family until they don't need you anymore. Love had nothing to do with it.
If someone tells you they are being abused by a narcissist or sociopath and you assume they are lying because the alleged abuser is “ such a nice person”.
Think again.
Superficial charm, well rehearsed lies and emotional manipulation makes them appear more kind, honest and interesting than the person being abused.
They will invent lies and distort truth rather than face the reality of what they did.
The new people in their lives will believe them, even when you give proof of their lies some people refuse to believe what is right in front of them.
THE NARCISSIST AND PATHALOGICAL LYING

A pathological liar lies compulsively and impulsively almost without thinking about the consequences.
Pathological lying occurs with people who suffer from certain personality disorders. Narcissists are skilful liars who tell lies in order to hurt and harm everyone who comes into their lives. They also tell the truth in misleading ways to give others incorrect perspectives. They study the person they hope to take advantage of looking for signs of weakness. Liars don’t care about your feelings and never will. A pathological liar shows no emotion when lying which is why they are so often believed.
Some scientists believe that narcissists lie in order to get attention, to make themselves appear more interesting. In fact, some will even tell lies that are self incriminating. Some narcissists lie in order to paint themselves as a victim to gain sympathy.
People with low self esteem are more likely to resort to pathological lying in an effort to make themselves look better than they believe themselves to be.
When caught out on their lies, narcissists often become extremely defensive and try to blame others. They may fabricate more lies to cover up the original lie.
Pathological liars often have difficulty maintaining consistency in their lives and often cannot sustain healthy relationships, they have multiple partners and become estranged from their families.
They do not appear to learn from their mistakes and probably never will.
Written by Anne McCrea
(From Narcissistic and Emotional Abuse, Shattering the Illusion, now available on Amazon)
Amazon UK

Pam Marshall

5/18/2018 02:40:16 am

I pinched this off Helen Turners post.
"Nothing good can ever come from an evil act. If you want a marriage to have a chance at a happy ending, you cannot acquire a marriage on a foundation made of lies, deception, selfishness, and devastation of others." ~ EmotionalAffair .org
All true, any relationship/ marriage that comes about from one or both parties infidelity, lies and deception and the deliberate acts of hurting and causing pain to someone who did not deserve it is not going to have the trust and belief that a relationship needs, regardless of them protesting that they did nothing wrong or that the deceived partner was abusive or that the marriage was over or any other excuse and or lies they come up with, both know the truth and both will always have in the back of their minds just what they did and the realisation that their partner could and probably will do it again.
But,, if its two narcissists, that's a totally different matter. Neither care and both know they and their narcissistic partner will be having a bit on the side and neither will care as long as the status quo stays in place with each covering for and backing each other up in their lies and manipulation and abuse of others and giving each other what they want, they can stay together for years. But even then the relationship/ marriage will eventually fall apart. It's a constant power struggle for them both and sooner or later the lies and stories start falling apart.
Anyone who has read all this and still believes their stories, i.e. lies, you really should be ashamed of yourself. It could happen to you and if it ever does then i guarantee you will change your opinion, no one is immune from this sort of abuse and manipulation. They didn't just suddenly meet and fall “in love”, the whole thing was set up and carried out with a lot of thought, she was after the other guy, he had used up everything his wife had and was looking for a replacement, he kept his wife hanging for nearly two years with lies, deception, promises and the poor me act just in case the other woman got the guy she was after so he would be able to suddenly “ find himself” and go back to her and the other woman kept him waiting while she was trying to get the guy who was her first choice just in case he backed out, which he did. There was no “ love” in any of it. Manipulation, lies, deceit, greed , everything but love. Then you add in all the stories from those who have worked with them both going back years and the dramas they caused at each and every place , the failed relationships both had and it was never their fault, this engine thing he has used for years to scam people, her passing a child off as one mans when she knew it wasn't and the list goes on and on, they knew exactly what they were doing and why and how much damage they were causing and didn’t care one little bit. .If you still cant see the truth then i guess you never will and i actually feel sorry for you because you are being used, abused and manipulated just as they do with everyone, your nothing to them and will be discarded as soon as your no longer needed, so good luck, your going to need it. .

Nikki Taylor

5/18/2018 01:41:05 pm

It took awhile for some of us but we finally worked out that when they said, “ We did nothing wrong, she is crazy, just a demented vindictive abusive woman who can't accept that the marriage is over”, what they really meant was , she finally saw the truth, what we were doing and did not believe my lies anymore”.
When you finally see through all the smoke and mirrors, you realise that there is nothing there to admire or respect. You see what they kept hidden in the beginning, a emotionally retarded, mentally weak, dysfunctional person with no conscience , is a pathological liar who uses lies to manipulate others and is a rather pathetic parasite who has to prey on others to give their life meaning and to get what they want.
I think that pretty much covers it. Their past actions going back years pretty much tells it all when you put it all together and you get a damn good indication of what they will do in the future. So i agree with Pam, if your around them either in a family or friend situation or work with either of them, good luck, because your going to need it. Either your usefulness will run out and you will be cut from the group or you will finally see the truth and when they can't manipulate you any longer, you will become the enemy and be the crazy, vindictive, abusive liar. .

Emotional abuse may be referred to as psychological violence or mental abuse, which involves subjecting someone to behaviour which may result in psychological distress or trauma such as chronic depression, stress, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder. Emotional abuse can be just as devastating as physical abuse, sometimes even more so. How do you know if you are being emotionally abused? The answer is in the way a person makes you feel as a result of their behaviour. If someone controls your life, puts you down and creates feelings of low self-worth, you are being abused.
Examples of emotional abuse include:
• Aggressive behaviour towards you. Controlling behaviour.Criticism.Making you feel bad about yourself.
Being made to feel guilty.Giving you the silent treatment.Financial abuse.manipulating you. lying to you.
The aim of an emotional abuser is to gradually chip away at your self-esteem and independence so that, in time, you become a shell of your former self.
Anne McCrea
Narcissistic and Emotional Abuse, Shattering the Illusion is now available on Amazon.
Amazon UK

Alex Jackson

5/18/2018 04:26:16 pm

I think you will find that most people have now worked out the facts from the fiction and if they can't avoid having contact with them they are at least aware that what they hear or see is in all probability not true.
You brought up a point a few of us were wondering about and between us worked out the real facts from the fiction. . They insisted it wasn't planned, they were both unhappy and being used and abused and getting involved and falling in “ love” just happened. But!! She was having an affair again with the father of one of her kids and kingsley at the same time, so kingsley is confused? And moves in with a “ friend” to try and sort himself out, then she goes chasing after this guy to canada with the kids to get him to leave his wife and Kingsley goes back to his wife while she's in canada because he cant stay at his “ friends” house over the christmas break?. . Then the kids father confesses all to his wife and he dumps her so she comes back to Australia after screwing up his life with his family with her lies and kingsley once again leaves his wife and moves back in with a “ friend”. Then she complains that everyone where they are working hates her and she has to leave , the truth is everyone saw what was really happening and stopped believing the lies. and he gets fired for being incompetent and an arseole. And they still insist it wasn't planned?. It just happened and they just fell in love? I mean really, come on, some might have been sucked in with their tales of abuse and being the victims etc but not for long. It didn't take much to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4. Then you get her relative who also was working for the same company and covering for them by lying to his wife when she called or calling him at home about work issues as a cover for Liz. Another manipulated flying monkey and enabler. By taking a look at their past actions , relationships and work history it all falls neatly into place . Most people have learnt to watch their backs and document everything in the work environment and to keep their spouses/ partners away from them because they know that they will do it again. They can't blame anyone but themselves , they caused this, not others and now they are paying the price. It might take awhile but the truth will always come out. You can see how things went down and were set up, both with his wife and where they worked. It's time they gave up the pretence of being the blameless victims in everything because no one is buying it anymore and they are just making it worse for themselves by digging the hole deeper. It might have taken in some cases years for people to realise they were used and abused and manipulated and lied to and lied about but once this can of worms was opened and everyone started talking and comparing stories it shook up a few people because the truth hit them hard, accepting that innocent people were ostracised and forced out of their jobs based on lies , that the sympathy and support they gave them when they told their stories of abuse by their partners and families was not true and that children were hurt because of either of them was not easy to accept.

Jess Franklin

5/18/2018 06:35:16 pm

Now that you brought the subject up AJ , it jogged my memory and i remembered something Dianne told me. After he was “demoted” from head of engineering to a consultant, supposedly because it gave him more time to work on the engine as his boss and the company owner was backing him and had invested in it, so he was at home a few days a week. Or would go to the workshop on the mainland to work on it and stay the night or weekend. If Dianne phoned him he never answered with the excuse his phone was flat or he didnt hear it because of the tools he was using making noise or he turned it off to get some sleep. Again she trusted him so accepted that and tried to make life easier for him because he was working so hard. That young girl would phone him at home day and night and Dianne jokingly told him she thought she had a bit of a crush on him and it was cute, he just laughed it off, telling her she needed some documents clarified ,she did not know then that she was related to Liz Mazza and was the go between for them and that it was Liz she should have been watching. When she phoned he would go outside well away from the house to take the call, she asked him once why and his reply was that the reception was better outside, so she never really thought much about it because she trusted him even though she knew the reception in the house was not that bad. This went on for months before he moved out in his “ confused” state, so your right, it was well and truly worked out and set up and they were screwing around and using lies and others to cover for them.. Like eventually happened with you and others all these seemingly innocent little things soon fell into place and showed a totally different picture of what was really going on with the lies , deception , excuses and cover ups.

Dan Green

5/19/2018 12:01:31 am

It was bound to happen with the amount of people who read this site, memories of things one or both have done in the past that come back and now make sense. This might help clarify things a bit and more victims might speak up.
A narcissist/ sociopath can be defined as a person who has Antisocial Personality Disorder. This disorder is characterized by a disregard for the feelings of others, a lack of remorse or shame, manipulative behavior, unchecked egocentricity, and the ability to lie in order to achieve one's goals. Narcissists/ Sociopaths can be dangerous at worst or simply very difficult to deal with, and it's important to know if you have found yourself with a narcissist / sociopath, whether it's someone you're dating or an impossible coworker. If you want to know how to spot them, then you have to pay careful attention to what the person says or does.
Look for a lack of shame. Most narcissists / sociopaths can commit vile actions and not feel the least bit of remorse. If the person is a true narcissist or sociopath, then he or she will feel no remorse about hurting others, lying, manipulating people, or just generally acting in an unacceptable way.
When a narcissist / sociopath does something wrong, he or she is likely to accept none of the blame and to blame others instead. They are willing to hurt whomever whenever if it means that they will achieve their goals. This is why many narcissists / sociopaths are highly successful people. They just do as they please and do not care about how it affects others.
See if the person is constantly lying. They are perfectly comfortable going through their lives telling a series of lies. If they are finally caught in a lie, then they will continue to lie and backpedal to cover up the lies. They love to lie about their pasts, too. Look for inconsistencies in their stories. Also, pay attention if someone familiar with their past grossly disagrees with their version of events or unknowingly discloses important information that the narcissist / sociopath withheld. Some narcissists / sociopaths will go to great lengths to make you believe their lies.
They are delusional to the point where they believe that their lies are the truth.
Consider if they are extremely charming and generous—at least at first. Narcissists / Sociopaths are great at charming people and making grand, generous gestures because they know how to get what they want. Charming people know how to make people feel special, to ask people the right questions about themselves, and to generally be perceived as fun, likable, and interesting. Truly charming people possess the ability to charm almost anyone, from little kids to old ladies.
You can think of them as con artists who always have a secret agenda. They need to know how to charm people in order to get what they want and advance to their goals.Notice if the person is manipulative. Narcissists / Sociopaths understand human weakness and exploit it maximally. Once determined, they can manipulate individuals to do just about anything. Check to see if the person is great at getting other people to do what he or she wants. See if the person is completely comfortable deceiving people and blatantly telling lies to get what he or she wants. In the same way they have little to no empathy, they have no integrity. Notice if the person has few real friends. Though not everyone gets lucky in the friends lottery, your guard should go up if the person has virtually no real friends. He or she may have lackeys, people who hang around him just to get bossed around, or people who hover around him to try to mooch off of him, but try to see if the person has any meaningful connections with people. Look for a lack of connection to the past. If the person has virtually no friends from any past part of his or her life and also take note if the person gives you stories of repeated betrayals throughout their life and uses this to explain a lack of friendships or history of failed relationships. Narcissists / Sociopaths do not make or keep long friendships. Since narcissists / sociopaths lie and deceive, they have the tendency to make the victim look and feel as though they are the problem that they are causing. The medical terminology is "projection".

Marian Lightfoote

5/19/2018 04:01:56 pm

Emotional predators are constantly reassessing who is useful to them and who is a threat. Those who present a threat to the narcissist (whether due to their talents, their education level, their competence, success, appearance or a number of different qualities) will at first be subjected to starry-eyed admiration and heaps of admiration before they are devalued.
A high and mighty pedestal will be built for their victims, just for the purpose of being destroyed. The narcissist needs to stage this cycle in order to derive their sense of power. Being able to keep their victims off-balance, never knowing their place in the narcissist’s life, is crucial for them to inflict the maximum amount of pain. So the chosen victims will go through a cycle of idealization and devaluation, pitted and triangulated with other members of their harem until they are discarded for calling out the narcissist’s crimes.
Those who are useful to the narcissist will be placed in a perpetual idealization phase until the time comes for them, too, to be kicked off the pedestal. In a narcissist’s labyrinth of lies and mind games, no one truly “wins” except for the victims who move forward.
Narcissists usually possess some quality that sets them up to be trusted. Whether it be their charm, their appearance, their intellect, their social acumen, there is usually one trait or a cluster of attributes that create a very mesmerizing hue to their presence. In psychology, we call this phenomenon “the halo effect” – the tendency for human beings to witness one trait (example: He is so handsome!) and generalize that this trait must also extend to the rest of their character and personality as a whole (He must be intelligent and kind too!)
Since these types spend their entire lives constructing a very alluring false image, they appear to be warm, caring and engaging in the beginning while ensnaring their prey. They build fan clubs and harems of empathic people (as well as toxic ones) who will attest to their character, their supposed trustworthiness, their nonexistent integrity. Usually these people are carefully chosen to ensure that these are the very people who have not witnessed their mask slip (or if they have, are willing to dismiss the red flags).
If the narcissist is ever in danger of being exposed, these cronies will inevitably speak up to defend their abusive leader at all costs, claiming the victims who speak out must be the problem, the “troublemaker” stirring chaos for no good reason. “He is such a good person! He’d never do anything like that!” They’ll claim. Or, “I don’t understand why you would attack her like this. She never did anything like that to me!” Never mind that the victims speaking out have likely experienced long-term psychological assault at the hands of the very “good” people who these enablers defend.
In The Sociopath Next Door, Dr. Martha Stout astutely notes that “a part of a healthy conscience is being able to confront the conscienceless.” Unfortunately, our society is ill-equipped to deal with the danger of malignant narcissists in our midst. Why? Because when someone is rude to us, abuses us or mistreats us in any way, we fall into the trap of projecting our own sense of morality, conscience and empathy onto them.
We rationalize that it was probably a “misunderstanding.” We minimize the amount of damage done, believing our rights are not as important as the aggressor’s (after all, that is what the aggressor has trained and conditioned us to believe). We fall prey to wanting social validation and approval. We see social “proof” that this person is well-liked, so it must be because they are a good person.

Margaret Harrison USA

5/19/2018 09:32:56 pm

Interesting article. Worth reading.
http://narcissistschild.blogspot.com/2012/08/she-is-never-wrong-characteristics-of.html
The Narcissist is Never Wrong
Written by Alexander Burgemeester
I’m sorry.” Those are two of the most difficult words for most people to be able to honestly say. When we are genuinely sorry, we have to admit that we hurt someone and it also means that we are taking responsibility for the pain we have caused.
A narcissist is never sorry because he (or she) perceives himself as perfect. He can’t be wrong. He views himself as superior to everyone and, thus, always right.
WHAT DOES HE DO WHEN HE MAKES A MISTAKE?
The narcissist is never, ever wrong, and he likes to present “proof” that he is correct. The narcissist cannot accept responsibility for making a mistake and he is expert at diverting the blame to others – (“It’s not my fault. I lost that promotion because my team let me down”, “You were acting so stupid-you made me hit you.”, “If you weren’t so cold, I wouldn’t have had that affair”). A narcissist will never admit even horrendous mistakes and when confronted, he will deflect, delay and tell more lies. He believes he is invincible and perfect.
When we look deeply into ourselves and know we have been wrong, we are able to say “I make mistakes”. We apologize to the hurt party and continue to have a healthy, solid sense of ourselves as positive human beings. A narcissist is unable to do this as that would require acknowledging that he is not perfect.
One daughter, writing in a blog, gave a wonderful summary of the thinking and behavior of a classic narcissist as it relates to never being wrong:
No matter what she’s done, she won’t ever genuinely apologize for anything. Instead, any time she feels she is being made to apologize she will sulk and pout, issue an insulting apology or negate the apology she has just made with justifications, qualifications or self pity: “I’m sorry you felt that I humiliated you” “I’m sorry if I made you feel bad” “If I did that it was wrong” “I’m sorry, but there’s nothing I can do about it” “I’m sorry but it was just a joke. You’re so over-sensitive” “I’m sorry I made you feel clumsy, stupid and disgusting”…
Some daughters of narcissistic mothers have called this a “fauxpology.” And that is exactly what it is: a false apology.
. “My own Narcissistic Mother went to her death having convinced herself that her lies, from little ones to whoppers that changed the lives of other people, were true. By rationalizing and justifying her lies and her nefarious deeds, she could believe herself right and justified in everything she did, even reversing herself and remaining right both in her original deed and in the undoing of it—a neat trick, if you ask me. For example, she married my father and later divorced him…but she would never say that marrying my father was a mistake because she was always right—she didn’t make mistakes. Her rationalization was that marrying him was the only way she could get away from her oppressive Old World father, therefore it was the right thing to do. That she was 16 and her father was no more oppressive than the fathers of other 16-year-old girl of that era was not material: she wanted to run her own life and marrying my father was an immediate and certain way to do that. So, even though she divorced him later, she did not consider marrying my father a mistake: it was merely a means to an end, he served his purpose and then she got rid of him. Without remorse, without regret, without any thought for the feelings of the people who would be hurt by her actions.
And not an apology in sight because you only apologize when you are wrong and, of course, she was never, ever that!”

Gary Linton

5/21/2018 11:28:21 pm

After reading everything on here, you would have to be blind freddy or really want something from them not to see who and what they are. The way they have treated and used people for years is staring you right in the face. The worst thing in all this is that they know exactly what they are doing and don't give a rats who they hurt and will lie to cover up their misdeeds. . All i can say is if you know them or someone like them, stay clear of them, if you have to associate with them for any reason then be aware of how they play the game and what the stakes are. Basically your playing with your sanity, your career, your money ,your future and reputation on the table and they don't care if they take it all as long as it gets them what they want.. Just as a bit of an enquiry, i have noticed he has left a few places he has been employed at least in Australia , off his CV, the omission of one in particular stands out, well actually two. Makes you wonder why?. Haven't bothered to check hers but i bet the same one or two has also be left out.
So take note of the following , it could save you a lot of grief.
NARCOPATH.INFO.
Feigned friendships, fake love, mimicked emotions, forced interests.
The Narcopaths entire relationship with themselves or anyone else , is fake.
It is impossible for them to have a genuine relationship with anyone in any social setting, be it as a spouse, partner, parent, friend or business associate.
Once those around them realise that they are fraudsters , that nothing about them is real, they see they never really knew them at all , because there was nothing about them that was real to know. They were fake from the start,. But be very aware that once they see that you know the truth , you become the enemy and they will do anything and everything to stop you exposing them to others. .

Gavin Crosley. SA

5/22/2018 02:29:06 pm

I can guarantee that this is 100% true. How do i know?, because i have been there. I learnt the hard way and it's a lesson i will never forget. I destroyed my marriage for a woman like this, hurt a person who had loved and cared about me ,lost the respect of my children, family and friends and eventually lost everything i owned. So if you look at this site without the rosey glasses you will see exactly what they are and how the work. Everything i have read on this site is very familiar. The lies and deception, the emotional abuse, having others cover for you, financial abuse, i took part in this willingly and not only blame the other woman involved but myself as well. I am not a narcissist but was a willing participant in what i found out to late was a narcissists scam and i paid the price as did others who were innocent of any wrongdoing. Over the years i have tried to repair the damage but it's not easy to win back the respect and trust of those you destroyed. She moved on to her next lover/ husband without a thought as to the destruction left behind. I guess as both these people are narcissists neither will ever admit fault or try to repair what they have done. That is the difference between a narcissist and a gullible fool like me. .

The Entrapment by the Female Narcissist
"The Female Somatic Narcissist knows she can bewitch a man with her body and doesn’t hesitate to use it for that purpose. But once she has won him over, she’s likely to begin to devalue and eventually discard him. If he has attributes she thinks she needs (money or success), she may even marry him because it benefits her lifestyle.
But she will get bored and be unfaithful. It’s a game to her; $ex is just the advantage she knows she has to win the game. Lest anyone think I’m being $exist here, there are plenty of somatic narcissist men who act the exact same way, and the women they attract mean nothing to them except a means to an end."
~ Lauren Bennett, The Mind's Journal

Faye Armitage.. In cases where there are two narcissists involved......they will feed off each other's delusions to keep a fantasy going beyond its expiration date.

Marian Lightfoote

5/22/2018 02:45:39 pm

Few married cheaters will end up marrying their Affair Partner, and the tenuous nature of any second marriage, let alone those that were started in a web of lies and deceit, means that few survive for very long if they do marry.
1. Because you’re in a relationship that started out as a big lie, and needs continuous deception on the part of one or both to maintain it, and that’s hard to overcome in a legitimate relationship — the realization that one or both partners has a talent for, and history of, deceiving their primary partner and believes that affairs are apparently an appropriate response to a poor relationship. Trust becomes a huge issue and a weight that hangs over the relationship that is no longer an affair.
2. Because once you’re in a legitimate relationship, the excitement and sexual tension in the affair lessens, which makes the relationship less desirable to one or both. Let’s face it — real life that revolves around chores, jobs, details, finances, etc, it’s just not as sexy as meeting someone once a week for an afternoon of passionate lovemaking. Real life can’t compete with that kind of high. Succumbing to the fantasy that the new relationship will be free of conflict or other emotional difficulties can be a setup for another failed relationship.
3. The weight of expectations. When you have left your spouse, and maybe kids, for your affair partner, your life is thrown into chaos. You’ve left havoc in your wake. You are probably stressed out and facing difficulties more numerous than you imagined. You feel tremendous guilt over what you’ve done, even if at some level you feel justified and it was the “right thing”. Therefore, there may be the feeling that anything that cost that much emotionally had better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations for the new marriage. You may believe that everything will be perfect just as their affair was. Unfortunately, what you may find is the ordinariness of real life. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage.
4. The social stigma associated with marrying your affair partner. Frequently, family and friends will side with the betrayed spouse and will never accept the affair partner into their lives. And that’s a burden to the relationship. An embarrassment to both partners that perhaps best be avoided by not staying with this person after one or more of the partners gets divorced. Oh, yeah, and your children, no matter what age they are, will not approve and will likely hold this against you more or less permanently, adding further to your stress.
5. And in other cases, I suppose it’s because people often use affairs as part of an “exit strategy” out of an unhappy marriage, but not the person they want to necessarily be with after they divorce. The affair is a way of testing the waters to see if there is something better out there. But once out of the marriage, the former married cheater does not wish to jump straight into an exclusive anything with anyone. They would rather be free, for at least a while, or maybe forever (I’ve heard many divorced men say they will never marry again — that it’s not worth it). And therefore, their affair partner is not what they desire once freedom is obtained. So if you current cheaters or single affair partners have this fantasy in your head, let it go. It’s fools’ gold. An Illusion. Your odds are almost better to win Powerball than to end up “happily ever after” with your affair partner. You might as well wear “I’m Stupid” on your forehead.
Some affairs DO end up in successful, legitimate relationships. Especially among those who married very young and to the wrong person for them and they stayed in out of obligation for years, and now that they are more mature and know what they want out of their remaining years, they are probably in a better position to have an exit affair with the “right person” to be happy with. Yes, it happens. Just not often enough to sustain the fantasy, I’m afraid. Exceptions don’t disprove the rule. If you are in an affair, assume it will end. And badly. This is all based on the fact that both affair partners are normal people, if one or both is a narcissist or sociopath, then its a whole other ballgame , one that is designed to gain the narcissist something and you to lose regardless. A relationship with a narcissist is never going to last long and the non narcissist is the one who always loses. See articles on this subject.

Max Rosenburg

5/22/2018 11:19:08 pm

I came across this quite by accident, not sure if its the same lady this site is about or how long ago it was written but it's a very big coincidence, especially with the name. THIS is the kind of legacy he and she have left behind. You might have convinced yourself that they did nothing wrong but don't try to convince me . I have seen to much in my long life and this is almost word for word what a dear friend said to me after their life with a narcissist.
“” My opinion is that prolonged narcissistic emotional abuse has made me numb and i have removed myself from just about everyone.
I don't know all the medical terms for how i feel , all i can say is that i am not the same person i was before him.
Nothing really seems to matter, whether its happy or sad news, whether i eat or not, what day it is. It's just there, just existing like i am.
It doesn't really matter either way.””
D Wright.
The war at home-if only someone knew. Facebook site.
Some of the replies !!!!!
Sarah Ziolkowski ....The emotional numbness and dissociation that comes with narcissistic abuse. You literally go through hell, while they, in their delusional and compartmentalized state of mind, move on and along as if nothing ever happened, further living in denial of what just happened. The victim is left behind with the shards and pieces of a soul and life she/ he once had. That is the insanity going on with them, making the victim look like there was something not right with him/her, but it is them. It is the result of their abuse.
Debbie Stevens... Contact with these soul suckers can actually not only change you mentally but can affect you to age physically. They can literally make you sick, no kidding!!
Alex Ander ...Exactly

Jess Franklin

5/29/2018 09:05:21 pm

Hi Max, Sent a copy to Dianne and spoke to her about it. She said she didn't write it or if she did , she doesnt remember doing it, things were very confusing for her for a long time and she agreed that is basically how she felt. . But that his first wife also was a D Wright .So if not her either, then it's just a coincidence, someone with a similar name that that been through this nightmare of abuse. . Unless he has a third ex wife we know nothing about. Lol.
“” Some people say that a narcissist will never apologise. And they won't, unless its in their best interests to do so.
They are habitual pathological liars and faking an apology will just be another lie.
They don't care how their behaviour has affected you but if it will calm down the situation then they will lie with an apology.
They will apologise if the have been caught out on their behaviour and an apology will get them off the hook for the time being. Making an apology in public is even better, giving those involved a false sense of them being a decent trustworthy person who admits when wrong. But be assured, it's not a genuine apology and means absolutely nothing other than as a means to deceive you. “”

Karen McDonald.

5/29/2018 09:12:17 pm

I found this very interesting and quite true .
A definite characteristic of a narcissistic sociopath is to view others not as fellow human beings ,but rather as tools or a means to an end. When certain people are deemed unable to further the narcissistic sociopaths given agenda, they are cast aside. People with this type of personality disorder do not have boundaries when it comes to manipulating and victimizing others if doing so will benefit them.This behaviour trait will make romantic relationships with a narcissistic sociopath particularly destructive emotionally, mentally and financially. Former spouses or partners of these individuals have found it takes a very long time to recover from these relationships.
"The problem is that narcissistic sociopaths do not look “evil” in the sense that they are masterful at projecting (and utterly convinced of) their own virtue or vulnerability, no matter what havoc they have wreaked.
Well meaning but ignorant others enable them, which fuels their entitlement, breeds their brazenness, furthers their destructive behavior, and shields them from accountability.
Sometimes others aren’t even that well meaning but rather titillated by a battle.
Victims are shockingly blindsided by their stunning malevolence."
~ Carrie Barron M.D.

Reply::
Faye Armitage "Self-gratification is really all that matters, the guiding principle of daily life.
Narcissists / sociopaths try to convince others that they are a persecuted party. Lies roll off the tongue with ease and spontaneity.
Sadly children too feel like they might be replaceable, or rejected the same way their mom was offhandedly discarded, so they cater to the narcissist the same way we used to, in order to stave off that impending feeling it might happen to them too.

Jesse Franklin

5/29/2018 09:30:35 pm

Update..

Dianne was recently sent the name of and link to the website of the company where he is currently employed. After initially ignoring it ,she was convinced with a bit of pushing, that she should read it as others who had read it knew it was a load of made up stories, half truths or straight out lies and that there was no mention of any of the companies he had worked for in Australia, as one person said, “ That fact alone stands out and makes you wonder why”. . What it stated about him made her angry to put it mildly. After speaking to others about it , it was decided she should rebuff some of the accomplishments , achievements, experience and qualifications it states about him and set the record straight. The truth about some of his claims has been posted on the New Page section.

Alex Jackson

5/30/2018 01:36:35 pm

Just finished reading his resume of accomplishments on that company website. I thought i had seen it all but i was wrong. It still amazes me that someone can play a minor part in something and blow it all out of proportion with made up stories and lies to where they were the principal involved and the main character. Or do something once and suddenly are experienced and an expert and tell a story but leave out the main parts or to put it bluntly, the truth. . .
You would think by now that he or rather both of them would realise that they are going to come unstuck because far to many people know the truth and the facts.
Read Dianne’s reply and rebuttal on the new page, it makes more sense and has a ring of truth to it with apparently documents and those other people involved in it to back it up than what he has stated.
Unless you have degrees , qualifications and experience in behavioural science, juvenile psychology , juvenile justice or similar and are a trained and qualified teacher then you can do more harm than good thinking you can work with young people who have emotional and learning disabilities, as has been proven with the way he treated and used her grandsons and the results of that emotional abuse . It doesn't just happen overnight, takes years study and training.
And i also noticed that there is no reference to any of the companies he has worked for in Australia , what his position was, experience etc and there have been quite a few. It is a glaring omission and you have to wonder why?.

If you want the best employee who suits the position and who becomes an asset to the company and not a liability then it’s time resumes , references ,qualifications, experience and past employment were thoroughly checked out before hiring anyone.

I have passed it on to others to read so i am sure there is going to be a quite a few discussions on it.

Helen Turner

5/30/2018 04:02:44 pm

Yeah, i read it as well and have passed it on , also have told people about Dianne’s response to his list of good deeds.
Hope the following wakes a few people up.

THE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS ABOUT NARCISSISM.

Yes, they know what they are doing.
Yes, they know they are hurting you.
Yes, they are doing it on purpose.
Yes, they can control it , just as they do when they are trying to impress someone.
Yes, they could stop if they wanted to.
Yes, they are capable of manipulation and control and do so at every opportunity.
Yes, they are pathological and compulsive liars.
Yes, they will dispose of and discard you when you are of no further use.
No ,they dont love you no matter how many times they say they do.
No, they are not your friend, they don't have friends, just others who are of use to them.
No, they are not capable of empathy, compassion or remorse.
No, they are never wrong or to blame, it's always someone else's fault.
No, they never feel guilty about the pain and destruction they cause.
No, you can't change them. They see no reason why they should change.
No, they will never apologize or make amends, because they are never in the wrong.

Society is becoming more aware of this disorder that causes so much suffering among those close to these sick and warped individuals . Society in general recognises that these people are to be avoided, not encouraged, rewarded or engaged with. If you can see the truth then you can protect yourself and those you care about. More companies need to realise that having someone like this on your staff is not only damaging to other staff member but to the productivity, reputation and future of the company.

Angie Mitchell

5/30/2018 08:52:47 pm

Came across this and i think it sums up perfectly just how the victims of narcissist abuse feel.
“ The war at home- if only someone knew.”

Narcissist abuse
You know what i just can't grasp?, what leaves me confused ? what makes no sense?.
I just don't get their cruelty and how they rationalise it.
I dont get how someone you loved with everything in your heart and soul could suddenly hate you with so much viterol and can see how your suffering and feel nothing.
I dont get why the one you loved so deeply could enjoy watching your heart bleed and your self respect, your self worth and your very life fade away and feels nothing but is more interested in lying to their next conquest about how cruel you are and how you wronged them. .
I dont get why they have to acquire their flying monkeys to bully and inflict further pain and suffering on the one person who has been the most supportive,loving and loyal to them, the one who trusted them, had faith in them and believed in them when others did not, the one who would do anything to try and make them happy and feel loved, wanted and worthy.
Through all the endless hours of research and education about Narcissistic Abuse , the weeks and months of therapy, the soul searching, the self blame, i will never be able to grasp the reality of their cruelty and twisted mind. I just cannot even begin to fathom how a person could be so heartless and cruel, it goes against every fibre of my being as a caring person.

Chris Gorman

5/31/2018 11:38:36 pm

Found his list of accomplishments mesmerising to read. Also noticed lack of places he has worked in Aus. I can name 2 off the top of my head. Both well known and highly respected companies which would be great on anyone’s CV, so how come he leaves them out?. I have a fair idea as to why. I did my training at one of them and the stories i heard about them were just as mesmerising but different to his. This site was a frequent topic of conversation. Anyone know where she is working?, not at the same place as him i hope. .
Read his ex wife’s reply and version of it, nothing most of us didn’t already know and something a lot more people should have known or at least taken the time to find out. Perhaps his current employer should do a bit of digging. I know they are names i won’t forget in a hurry.

Marian Lightfoote

5/31/2018 11:58:03 pm

Sometimes , those who don’t understand what it’s like to encounter Narcissism close up think talking about it is judgmental and unnecessary.

They try to say things like, “People are all just trying their best from whatever capacity they have or level of consciousness they’re working with.” I understand this, and it is quite true.
There are also humans out there who are trying their goddamn best to destroy other people’s lives, to cause everlasting and ingrained pain in the hearts of others, and to tear down the strong and brilliant hearts that shine brightly and highlight a narcissist’s perceived imperfections.
There are also people who are doing their best to manipulate others for their own egotistical, materialistic, and financial gain. Hurt people hurt people. Angry, self-centered, twisted people also hurt people.
This is why it is absolutely imperative that those who have been through the storm keep marching, so that they can let those who are still in it know that the light at the end of the tunnel is nearby—if they can just keep moving through. And also to let them know that they are not alone and to never, ever give up—because, believe me, I, and thousands or possibly even millions of others, have wanted to. Some, tragically, do.
Please, if you are one of those people who haven’t experienced what it’s like to look into the treacherous eyes of narcissism day after agonizing day, do not try to tell those who have what it’s like or what they should be feeling, thinking, saying, or doing.
Good, genuine people, strong and incredibly beautiful-on-the-inside people who are compassionate, caring, loving, and trusting of others are currently in the midst of relationships of all kinds with people who are narcissistic.
Those who have no idea what it’s like to be lied to, manipulated, deceived, and emotionally, mentally, financially and sometimes physically abused, often try to tell those who are either entangled in these dynamics or those who have escaped it, “If it’s that bad why don’t/didn’t you just leave?” " why didn't you put in a complaint ". There are times when its not that simple.
No one would willingly choose these relationships if they knew the suffering that lies ahead. This not only applies to a romantic and intimate relationship but to what they perceive as friendship, a business partner or a co-worker. Narcissists notoriously hide their narcissism well. They are incredibly skilled at masking their intentions, and they play such convincing characters that even the most highly intuitive, aware, alert, and attentive person can be fooled. Part of the narcissist’s masterful plan is to convey such a convincing angelic-like image that no one would outright suspect that their inner motivations are in huge contrast to what they choose to outwardly display.
I believe it is harmful for people to pretend to know about this mental disorder and to offer, what they believe, is expert advice without actually having a balanced and rational clue about what’s actually happening. Those who have never been entwined with a narcissist may say that they know without a doubt that someone with this disorder would never manage to lure them in. However, believe me, at one time, I thought this too, and the hundreds of men and women I have spoken to thought this exact same thing too. In my opinion, the only people who get to tell others what it’s like to experience life at the hands of someone with narcissism are those who have lived, breathed, and walked through the fire and felt every painful moment of each turbulent day. So, when those who have been to this hell try to warn, guide, support, or prevent others from going or staying there, it would be beneficial if those who haven’t ever been there don’t trivialize and underestimate their experiences by trying to tell them they are blowing it out of proportion, or that it’s probably just a bad relationship, or worse still, that everyone is narcissistic to some degree.
Regardless of how much anyone thinks they know, the only ones who actually know what it is like are the people currently walking through narcissism hell and those who have already walked through it. No one else can possibly accurately judge what it’s like.

Marian Lightfoote

6/1/2018 12:18:37 am

IMPORTANT!!!!!

Narcissistic abuse is insidious, misunderstood and leaves the victim devastated in every way possible.
Knowledge is the key to overcoming and understanding this abuse and very often is enabled by flying monkeys who enable the abuser.
JUNE 1ST is World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day.
Find out more at:: www.wnaad.com

Gavin Taylor UK

6/1/2018 02:08:57 pm

Enjoyed reading the exes come back. Tells a totally different story to his and is a more believable version.
It's a pity more people don't check out a person before they accept everything they say. If you dig deep enough, talk to the right people then the truth is easy to dig out and can save you from a lot of grief in the long run. Be wary of those who blow their own trumpet to loudly or who claim to have been lied about, victimised and abused by everyone around them. . When you tell a lie then you have to tell more lies to keep the original lie going. The more lies you tell the harder it is to keep them in order and remember them. I suffer from that disorder where i speak the truth and it pisses people off. I figure if people didn't lie then i wouldn't have to point out the truth and they wouldn't get pissed off . Simple logic?
The Narcissistic boss or co-worker.
It's your job to do things for me, including taking care of my responsibilities and the blame if i drop the ball.
If things are not going well for me, it's your fault.
You should not place demands on me at all, you should be grateful for what i give you.
I am above criticism.
I am never wrong.
I am better than you.
I have the right to take credit for your ideas.
Your lucky to have me here.
Working for or with a Narcissist can be damaging not only to your physical and mental health and career but can and will have a negative impact on the company itself. .

The Despicable Nature Of A Narcissist Cheater,
To a narcissist it's perfectly ok to cheat on his / her partner, spouse then to abandon his / her partner, spouse and children when he has found a better replacement, because he / she lacks empathy and feels no guilt.
As far as he / she is concerned, one spouse, partner can easily be replaced with another that has more to offer, money, social status, youth , the same goes for replacing children, a child can be replaced with a new one, either their own or someone else’s.
Does he / she feel ashamed, guilty or embarrassed?,not at all..
He / she believes he / she is perfect, has done nothing wrong and if caught out will turn it back on to the discarded partner as being the cause and in the wrong. He / she feels entitled to do whatever they want to get whatever they want and that he / she is being victimized and blamed for something that was not his / her fault and deserves and is entitled to support and sympathy.. .

David Peterson

6/2/2018 02:38:30 pm

Yeah, well, hmmm, read it, had a bit of a laugh and can state with certainty his wifes version is closer to the truth. But it is a good fiction story. Take a true fact, turn it around and inside out, add a few positives to it in your favour, cover up the truth with well thought out lies and leave out anything that is to easy to check up on and you have a really amazing past history of employment ,accomplishments and qualifications. Totally false of course but someone will take it as true without checking and your on your way to screwing over more unsuspecting co- workers and undermining the reputation of another company.
My advice from experience,,, Listen to what the Malignant Narcissist has to say, then reverse their statement to get the truth or at least closer to the truth. Take the time to actually speak to those who were there when issues and drama took place instead of believing what’s written on a piece of paper they present to you. Some people are not who and what they make themselves out to be. Sure, i agree that people make mistakes and deserve a second chance but when they make the same mistakes over and over and accept no responsibility for them , blame others and straight out lie , when the second chance becomes a third or fourth and more ,then something is not right and should be looked at further before putting yourself out on a limb and finding yourself up a tree without a ladder. Both the individuals this site is about should be looked at very closely before committing yourself to anything regarding them. Its common sense, there is no smoke without a fire.

Max Rosenburg

6/4/2018 10:50:58 pm

You would think that anyone with a bit of common sense and who thinks they are smarter than the average person would realise that when you tell lies , especially great big lies, that sooner or later someone is going to pull you up on them and your going to be made to look like a first class idiot and liar and no one is ever going to trust you or anything you say ever again. He really built up a complex web of lies and look what happened, the whole thing fell down on him. Serves him right is all i can say. Good on the ex missus for telling it as it really was. Hope people who hung on his every word now see the truth.

Marian Lightfoote

6/5/2018 12:03:55 am

With the recent revelations this may be of interest.
You try not to get stuck on bitterness and resentment. But you can't get away from it, it sleeps with you at night, it's there every waking moment, If your holding on to the anger your not hurting them at all, you are hurting yourself , they are succeeding beyond anything they expected and they are the ones who are winning. Eventually you have to let it go to be able to move on,
People often get involved in things and take sides without knowing all the facts, the whole truth or the real story. Thats their responsibility and they have to live with that. I know the truth and that's all that matters, if others don't want to believe me then there is nothing i can do about it and again that's their choice. The truth eventually comes out but not before more damage has been done by those ignorant people and most people never have the courage to admit that they were wrong in their assumption of the situation or to tell the victim so..
A good parent , partner or spouse will consider how everyone in the family in affected when making decisions. The narcissistic parent / spouse/ partner will consider only his / her feelings and how decisions affect him/ her , as those are the ones that count the most.
I have come to the conclusion that if after you give a person your heart and soul, after you support them when others did not, after you give them your trust, after you put your faith in them, after you believe in them, after you put them first before all others, that if they are stupid enough to walk out of your life ,then be smart enough to let them go. Because they will never be satisfied ,appreciate , love or be faithful to anyone or anything in their constant pursuit for something better because in the end you mean nothing to them other than what you can give. .
"They use camouflage and lies to avoid being exposed and to pass themselves off as virtuous, loving, caring, competent people, the proverbial “wolves in sheep’s clothing.” Unlike normal people they do not honestly ask you to donate or give to them what they need because their appetites are insatiable. They cannot verbally announce their true intentions to their hosts, can they? Instead, they have developed strategies to steal your time, money, adulation, attention, stature, credit and whatever they need and want from you and feel entitled to.
They have developed a portfolio of manipulation and covert aggressive “combat” tactics to exploit, con, take, steal whatever they need to function and that you can supply and that they do not want to supply themselves or work for. A parasite to be successful cannot tell you it is going to parasitize and prey on you, can it? And like all parasites, they use effective camouflage and stealth so by the time you discover them, unfortunately, the damage is done. You have been infested. You have become depleted of useful resources ,emotionally fatigued or worse, traumatized.

.

Jesse Franklin

6/5/2018 04:06:50 pm

Marian, Your comments are always good to read as they make a lot of sense as others have remarked as well.
“ The truth eventually comes out but not before more damage has been done by those ignorant people and most people never have the courage to admit that they were wrong in their assumption of the situation or to tell the victim so.”.
Quite a few people have realised that they were lied to and conned and several have contacted Di either in person or via email/ phone and apologised for allowing themselves to be manipulated into believing what they were told by either of them. Some have told their own stories of past contact with one or both of them , be it in a personal interaction or in the workplace. Others never will for a variety of reasons, embarrassment, guilt, not wanting others to know they were conned or in some cases because they never want their partner or spouse to find out they cheated on them.
A genuine apology and asking if they can be of help in any way goes a long way in restoring the self respect , confidence and self worth of anyone that has been abused , used and manipulated by a narcissist. Just knowing that they have treated others in a similar way is enough to reinforce the fact that the victim did nothing wrong. That fact has helped restore confidence to Di and has encouraged her to research and learn all she can about NPD. As you know, she writes articles under a pen name that have been published on several sites and in docos about narcissism not only about her own experience but those of others who have given her their stories, not only about one or both of them but others the same as them. She has become quite an expert on this as a unqualified advocate as unlike most therapists who have never personally experienced this in their lives and only have the stories of their patients as reference, she has lived it , has experienced the trauma and lives with the damage.
Unfortunately Kingsley will never admit that he deliberately caused so much damage and destruction and will continue to insist that he did nothing wrong as does Liz. They has no choice but to continue to lie and cheat their way through life as it's the only way they can keep the illusion going. Its up to those around not only him but her as well to accept that they are not who or what they claim to be and sort out the lies from the truth.
“ Arguably, the most important thing to remember about those people with NPD is that their core psychological nature is fiercely socially competitive. All will lie or misrepresent themselves in order to self-promote, harm a rival, win social favor or gain financially. The only way to prevent these parasitic vampires, sexual con artists, and psychic energy hustlers from causing you psychological distress, physical harm by creating stress related health issues, emotional confusion, or crippling self-doubt brought on by their constant undermining (that includes pervasive negative commentary and debilitating snarks), or financial ruin is to limit or end all social involvement. In order to save yourself, your immediate family, your professional contacts, your personal friends and in some cases your company’s reputation and any and all non-related loved ones from a predator’s secret smear campaigning agendas, it’s critical to remember several things.
Anything they say to you on any given day is highly likely to be nothing but lies and to be based on some Machiavellian plot they either strategized in advance or make up on the fly in order to con you.
That they are never in the wrong, nothing is ever their fault, they are misunderstood, they are the victims .”
~ Flying Monkeys Denied

Until you’ve lived my life, walked my path, felt my pain ,seen what i’ve seen and survived. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Vivian Walker. B C. Canada

6/7/2018 10:48:01 pm

It's good to see that those who previously dismissed the victims version of what transpired have finally seen the true nature of the abuser or in this case abusers. That some had the courage to stand up and admit that they were wrong and offer an apology or make offers of help. This can go a long way in helping the victim by giving them back some of the self respect and dignity the narcissist stole from them and adds other voices to denouncing the lies, the more that say , no, he/ she is lying, the better the chance of others never becoming a victim.
I have found this site to be very open and honest and the comments and articles have been of great assistance in helping me gain back what i lost, my self worth.
I asked others to read this site, this woman's story, all the comments and articles , it has also helped them to understand just what i and others have been subjected to by these parasitic low lifes and shows that we are not crazy or vindictive, that we have genuinely been emotionally abused. . I too have had those close to me who believed his stories, come to me in tears and tell me how sorry they were that they didn't understand, that he seemed so genuine , vulnerable and believable but that after they read this site they saw the parallels in what i have said happened and that has been backed up by so many others in similar situations, that they can no longer deny the truth, that they now know his stories are nothing but lies designed to manipulate them into giving him support and sympathy.
I intend to pass this site on to as many people as i can, they can pass it on to as many as they can and so on. Like the ripple effect the damage and destruction the narcissist causes, hopefully the ripple effect of this site will be greater and do some good to help more understand the truth..
Malignant narcissists believe they are entitled to abuse and use you in any way they see fit to gain whatever it is you can supply them with, but you are not allowed to talk about what they do. They expect you to crawl away and hide and to just accept it. If you do stand up to them they will do everything possible to make you look like the abuser, they will fabricate lies about you and morph into the victim in a blink of an eye. Don't try to understand their delusional minds it's so scrambled that to them lies become truth and fiction becomes fact, trying to unravel the mess will only make you more confused and upset and to others you will look like the abuser, which the narcissist wants and will use against you. Your only hope is to tell the truth, back it up with proof if you can, then walk away, most others will eventually see the truth as time passes as the narcissist is a repeat offender in everything they do. You have to realise that you can't force anyone to see the truth, if they ignore the facts it's usually because they have become brainwashed, manipulated and dominated by the narcissist to the point where they simply cannot allow themselves to doubt them.
Please take the time and make the choice to check out the facts before taking what a person like this tells you as being the truth. Narcissists are deceptive, manipulating, experts at hiding, bending and skirting the truth and very convincing liars, they have perfected the art of conning you.They know how to play the wronged and abused victim to gain your support and sympathy. For your own sake and that of those you care about, find the truth.

Justin Dunstable

6/8/2018 01:59:45 pm

I have a question that i'm pretty sure what the answer is but will throw it out there to get some feedback.
“ Will a narcissist ever admit what the have done, accept responsibility for the destruction they have caused and give a genuine apology and try to repair the damage in some way”.
Next question.. “ the information on this site shows without any doubt that he is a narcissist, that he has no conscience, feels no guilt or responsibility and has shown no remorse for what in effect are horrific crimes that have caused a great deal of pain and suffering to innocent people. So why cant he see this? Why keep denying it? Doesn't he realise what those around him really think about him , they know he is a liar, they have no respect for him, they dont trust him , they laugh at him behind his back when they discuss his attempts to con them or convince them , i know because i have been involved in some of the conversations about him , is he really so oblivious to this?. Leaving out everyone else he has abused and conned for now and i'm sure there are many, what are the chances that he will ever go and see his ex wife and admit what he did was wrong. ? The opinions of those who talk about him is that it will never happen because he is a coward and knows what he did was deliberate. Why keep protesting his innocence and playing the victim when obviously no one believes him.? Why keep up the pretense of the embellished stories or rather lies about his qualifications and experience in his past and employment when it's obvious to everyone that it's all made up,? Just curious as to why they do this. Can’t they see they are just making it worse for themselves?. That once the truth is out they become a joke. So again my main question:: Do they in general ever admit fault, ever apologise, ever try to repair the damage they caused. Why do they keep up the pretence once they are exposed?.

Marian Lightfoote

6/8/2018 10:21:58 pm

The simple answer is, no. For a person with NPD to give a genuine heartfelt apology they would first have to admit to themselves that they were in the wrong , that what they did was wrong, that they caused damage to another person for personal gain and that is never going to happen. To their dying day they will insist they did nothing wrong and that they were used, abused and the victim. Read the following article..

Part of an article. See details for full article at the end.
We often hear the term “narcissist,” but in reality, what does that mean? Does it merely describe someone who likes to be the center of attention, or likes the way he or she looks? Or is there more to it? The psychiatric literature defines narcissists as possessing specific traits, such as having a sense of entitlement or requiring excessive admiration. But what are narcissistic individuals really like on a day-to-day basis?
Anyone who has lived with or worked for a narcissist will tell you: Narcissists view themselves entirely differently — i.e., preferentially — compared to others, making those around them less valued. And there’s the rub: Everything must be about the narcissist. We don’t mind that a 2-year-old needs constant attention. But we do mind when a 40-year–old needs that level of appreciation — and when achieving it comes at our expense. Narcissists victimize those around them just by just being who they are, and they won’t change. That statement may seem extreme, until you listen to the stories of those who have been victimized by a narcissist. Then you realize just how toxic relationships with these individuals can be.
Work for a narcissistic boss, or with a narcissistic co worker and he or she can make you physically or psychologically ill. Live with one, and it could be worse. In researching my book, Dangerous Personalities(link is external), I talked to scores of individuals who have been victimized by the narcissistic personality. Listening to story after story of stolen childhoods, destructive marriages, and burdensome relationships, I heard the same refrain: Narcissists see themselves as being so special that no one else matters. No one. Over time, the behavior resulting from their defining pathological traits will cast a wide debris field of suffering. I have learned from the victims lessons that no medical book can teach, and they are lessons for all of us. Knowing the traits of the narcissistic personality and how narcissists view themselves is useful, but so is knowing what can happen when you associate with them. Some, like children, close relatives, or the elderly, may not have a choice. In those cases, it is up to friends, relatives, teachers, coaches, associates, and co-workers to support them as best we can.
And there are those who choose to stick it out, because of finances, circumstances, or because they are in a complicated relationship or marriage. To them I say, beware: You will pay a price. I say this from experience and from talking to many victims. Those who choose to live with or work with a narcissistic personality must be prepared to accept this fact. This is the unvarnished truth about how narcissists see themselves, how they will behave, and how they can make you feel. I wish it were a better picture, but survivors of these personalities will tell you that it is that bad, and that toxic. As Stuart C. Yudofsky explains in his book Fatal Flaws, the truly narcissistic personality is “severely flawed of character.”
You might be asking, “What can I do?” Conventional wisdom advises seeing a trained professional for guidance. That is wise, but not always available. In my experience, the only one solution that works is to distance yourself from the individual as soon as you recognize them for what they are, and as soon as it is practical. As your psychic wounds heal, you will see your life improve and feel your dignity restored. As painful as distancing yourself maybe, it is often the only way to make the hurting stop and to restore your well-being.
To see the full checklist of the traits of the narcissistic personality, or of the social predator, please consult Dangerous Personalities(link is external) by Joe Navarro with Toni Sciarra Poynter (Rodale, 2014).

Alex Jackson

6/9/2018 03:06:27 am

No no and no. He has gotten away with manipulating , using , emotionally abusing, lying to and about others, financially conning and cheating on anyone who cared about him from his mother to his wives, step children, family members, friends and coworkers that it's his life and he is never in the wrong, its always someone else's fault.. The fantasy world he lives in has him as the one who has been used and abused and its him who is the victim. Im damn sure he thought he would get away with it this time as well, that Dianne would be the same as all the others and just go away and hide to forget he even existed or even better just die. To bad he picked a fighter this time and instead of crawling away to hide under a rock to die she picked the rock up and threw it at him, knocking not just him but the other woman off their ivory pedestals of “ i've done nothing wrong”. The other woman who through her association with him has been shown to be exactly the same and has done similar things throughout her life. Because of that fact he would never have the guts to go anywhere near her and will continue to cry victim and blame her as the abuser until hell freezes over. So no, no apology will ever be forthcoming. And honestly she doesnt want one because she knows it will just be another lie and an attempt to manipulate again.
Psychopaths/ sociopaths/ narcissists always claim abuse, but the victim is the one left confused and broken. Abusers will be confiding in their fan club how you wronged them in every way , all the while prancing off into the sunset with their “ new perfect life”, either with a new unsuspecting victim/ love interest or a new job. They accuse you of doing the very same things they actually did but unlike you they seem unfazed by it all and bounce back with all the sympathy and support they milk from their fans. Meanwhile the true victim spends years of their life healing from this disaster both emotionally and physically.. They seek out help from therapists, recovery forums, and by spending quiet introspective times . They do not use their stories of abuse to lure in new relationships. Abusers on the other hand do not spend a single second recovering from or seek out professional help to aid them in their recovery of abuse because they were never abused by you in the first place. In fact they were treated with an unusual level of care, love and compassion , belief and trust in their personal life by spouses or partners and respect, admiration and trust in the workplace by coworkers and employers. Which they used to their advantage to manipulate and abuse.
Psychopath Free. fb.me/psychopath free @psychopath free

Helene Marchant UK.

6/9/2018 03:24:49 pm

I have to agree with the others, its a defineate and resounding,NO. The only time a Narc will apologise is when it's to their advantage to do so but its not a genuine apology, it's just lip service to placate you. I find it ironic that what started as a website to warn others about him has turned into so much more. The woman he was having the affair with was revealed as not being his next victim as assumed but as being exactly like him. Using people to gain what she wanted, destroying them if they didn't agree, so many stories of affairs, lies, manipulation, emotional abuse, financial abuse from family members, past partners, married men she had affairs with, past friends, those she worked with. Then all the information on him that flooded in, from those he had worked with, his own family members, those he had financially ruined, past affairs with both married and single women, dramas he created everywhere he was employed in several countries, those he had conned and manipulated into helping him , the truth about his amazing engine and the list goes on. I don't think either of them was expecting this to happen as they had both gotten away with this sort of behaviour for so long they expected to this time as well. So the thought of him ever giving an apology to his ex wife went out the window when she quite by accident, open the Pandora's box and let the truth about both of them out. I feel she in all probability would have been stunned and surprised by everything that came out. So he simply would not have the courage to do so, basically all Narcs are cowards and show this when they are exposed by moving on and reinventing themselves. I found the following on a forum about NPD and thought it described exactly what happened .
“ The strongest people i know didn't get that way because everything worked out perfectly for them. They became strong because things went wrong, they took what life threw at them, they learned, got wiser, stood up and dealt with it all. “

Jenny Talbot

6/9/2018 06:37:52 pm

I know that his ex wife was not the only one shocked by all the information that came flooding in about not just him but her as well. Some that had known them for a long time who had stood by them, given them sympathy and support and backed them up believing their stories of being used, abused, manipulated and victimised in their personal relationships suddenly realised that they had been duped, conned and manipulated themselves. Others who had been dismissed as troublemakers when they complained of the way they were treated either financially ,emotionally or blamed for mistakes they did not make, by either of them mainly in business or the workplace suddenly had their claims validated and in some cases were given apologies by those who were manipulated into taking their side. It was a bitter pill for most of them to swallow when they realised that their actions in taking side with them had contributed to the pain, confusion and damage caused to those who were actually innocent of any wrongdoing. So i have to agree with what’s been said, this website has accomplished far more than it ever was intended to by exposing the truth about both of them. Hopefully it will do some good and those they have contact with in any sort of context, either personal or business will be alerted to their true nature and be more cautious in the future. She was never intended to be more than a part of the story as his next possible victim but as it turned out was shown to be just as much a manipulative liar as him, who had caused just as much pain and destruction .It’s strange how the truth always finds its way out in the most unexpected ways. As for either of them ever accepting the blame for things they have done and giving a genuine apology to anyone, i think your being very pessimistic if you think that will ever happen.

Dealy Martinez. CA.

6/11/2018 07:31:05 pm

Do we ever really know someone as well as we think we do?. Perhaps a relative we have known our entire lives, a friend or acquaintance, a business partner or work college?. Regardless of who they are, i know that most of us including myself, have at some stage been surprised, hurt and confused by something they have either said or done. But because we think we know them so well we make excuses for it, “ It must have been a mistake or accident, because he / she would never really mean it ,“ “ he/ she must be having a bad day because they are usually so caring and helpful”, “ he / she would never deliberately do or say that”. Or when told of something they have done that has hurt others or that they lied about something, or stolen from someone, we simply don't believe it because we think we know them so well so dismiss the stories as lies. The simple fact and truth is, we don't know anyone really unless we live with them 24/7 for a long time and see them as their true self. Spending a few hours a day working with a person, socialising with someone once a week, even spending a weekend or so with someone does not mean you know them, most people are on their best behaviour at these times, occasionally the mask will slip and the real person will appear and that's when we are left wondering what just happened because the mask is quickly put back in place. We really do not know how they act or treat anyone they have constant contact with behind closed doors. We only know them as the person they let us see.
This is i feel what has happened with both the individuals in this site, different people know them as different people, when the truth comes out and they are exposed for the things they have done, the deliberate damage they have caused, the lies they have told, the way they have manipulated others, stolen from others, caused emotional pain, its difficult to reconcile this with the person you think you know well so you deny it as lies and them being victimised. You give them support and sympathy but there comes a moment when you realise that so many different people telling the same or similar stories about them just simply can't be ignored. So you start to remember things that have happened , things that just didn't seem quite right at the time, you analize it, you look at it differently and it hits you, you have been conned and manipulated and used and you have by your acceptance of thinking you know them really well have contributed to the destruction and dramas they have created. Some will accept this and feel guilt and remorse and try to change things, others will ignore it for fear of retribution and others still will refuse to accept it. So regardless of how long you have known a person, you really do not know the real person, just the one they show you. And narcissists are masters at hiding who they really are and telling the most believable lies.

Justin Shepard

6/12/2018 02:12:43 pm

I don’t personally know either of them but i am close to someone who did who now has distanced themselves from them and through them I know that what has come out in this site has shocked a lot of people who thought they knew one or both of them, even relatives who have known them all their life. As this person said to me, “ certain things that have happened over the years that were a bit confusing with the different stories, suddenly fell into place and i felt like a idiot for being sucked in so easily to help and back her”. So you are right when you say that we never really know a person. They both are a topic of discussion at any social gathering either personal or work related as people swap stories about the lies and dramas they have caused to so many and keep each other up to date as to where they are and what they are doing. From what i have seen, read and been told, they are both pathological liars, have used and abused others to get what they want both in their personal life and employment for years and then play the victim when it all goes pear shaped. If it hadn't been for him she would never have been exposed and the truth would never have come out about her past. As for him, his past now speaks for itself. I have also been told that when all this started several of her friends, family and coworkers contacted his wife and told her that they didn't like or trust him, that he was the one who was chasing her, the one who was telling lies, they thought he was using her as she was vulnerable and unhappy because she had been used and abandonment by xxxx father in Canada then later when the truth came out ,contacted her again and said how wrong they had been. People like them tend to stick to what they do and repeat it over and over, so let them deny it all, play the victim to the hilt because there are very few who know them who believe it now and the information in the site should be enough to make anyone new they befriend or are employed by in the future have second thoughts.

Marian Lightfoote

6/12/2018 12:55:34 am

Another interesting article along the lines of what is currently being discussed.
Contrary to popular belief, not every toxic person, i.e Narcissist / sociopath is toxic because of a tragic past. Nor do they all suffer from low self-esteem.
Some are born toxic, continue to be character disordered and have no conscience or remorse for their actions. Their brains are inherently different, revealing deficits in areas of the brain related to empathy and compassion. They may know right from wrong but they simply do not care. Many grandiose narcissists on the high level of the spectrum deem themselves superior and feel entitled to anything and everything. That’s why they deliberately destroy lives and sabotage people – because they can and they are rewarded by it. The highly disordered do not always destroy others because they are “suffering in pain.” They do so because they know they can get away with it.
Narcissistic /Sociopathic predators are very skilled at fooling and duping others. They can be very likeable and charming. They can provoke their victims into reacting after months or years of covert abuse, only to use those reactions as proof that their victims are unstable. The malignant narcissists who walk among you are probably people you know and like – and if you haven’t personally been victimized by them, you’re none the wiser to who they truly are behind closed doors.
When manipulators use others to carry out their dirty work for them, their actions can be just as destructive and toxic as those of the original perpetrators. Enablers exist on a spectrum, just like toxic people – all the way from the confused, blissfully ignorant bystanders to the malicious fellow con artists. Some people truly believe that the manipulators in question are “good” and since predators have a great deal of social proof that others like and approve of them, they are able to continue on their façade with alarming ease with the support of people who stand by their side.
If you don’t always feel this way with others but with them you feel off balance, hurt, confused, constantly mistreated and devalued – you’re in the presence of an emotional predator. Empathic people know when they’ve made mistakes and own up to them. They don’t avoid accountability for their actions, even if they inadvertently hurt people. Narcissists/ Sociopaths do – and they do not care who they hurt. They do not care about your feelings. They do not care about your needs. So always remember that if you’re consistently not feeling good or feeling something is just not right –then this is not someone who is emotionally safe.
When victims of covert malignant narcissists finally move forward, enablers are left in the dust as well – though they don’t know it yet. Narcissists and sociopaths only treat their enablers well so long as they serve them. So, eventually, they turn on the people who helped them carry out their dirty work too when they are no longer useful. All those who supported the perpetrators will one day remember the day their victims tried to get them to see the truth. Unfortunately, by that time, it’ll be too late.
Shahida Arabi
Shahida is the author of Power: Surviving and Thriving After Narcissistic Abuse

Coral Davidson

6/12/2018 04:51:16 pm

“People who want to deceive you…will often use a simple technique which has a simple name: too many details. When people are telling the truth, they don’t feel doubted, so they don’t feel the need for additional support in the form of details. When people lie, however, even if what they say sounds credible to you, it doesn’t sound credible to them, so they keep talking. Each detail may be only a small tack he throws on the road, but together they can stop a truck.”
Gavin de Becker

Putting on a show in public, playing the caring, generous, experienced, helpful pillar of society is totally different to the person you are behind closed doors or when no one else is around to see and hear the real you. It’s how you treat others without an adoring audience watching that matters and tells me who you really are.
Narcissists really loathes and fears anyone who doesn’t go along with the false narrative they have created about themselves. They will do anything in their power to shut down and discredit this person. Everything about the narcissist is fake and they must maintain this illusion to the world and not be exposed for what they really are.:: Pathetic needy liars that rely on those they have conned and manipulated to feed the lie. They know that without the lies they are nothing and their monumental ego could not handle that.
Yvonne Clerebout.

Jess Franklin

6/13/2018 03:14:27 pm

In response to several enquiries.
After having his profile on linkedin and the website of where he is now working pointed out to me, i thought what a load of made up misinformation and lies with a lot of omissions and gaps. I have had several people contact me and ask how he can get away with all the inaccuracies he has on his linkedin account and the website of where he is now employed and asked why hasn’t anyone contacted some of the places he has left off his profile where he worked in Australia and obtained a truthful reference?. Or at least asked why he has left them out. A couple of them are large well recognised companies that anyone would want on their list of achievements. There is a very big gap in his employment history, has anyone else noticed it ?. What was he doing in those missing years?. Just keep in mind that if you ever do ask him i’m sure he has some plausible excuse, lie, to explain it so your better off asking them direct. If you would like a list of these companies then email me for the details.
It has been shown without any doubt that he is a liar and a conman who uses anyone and everyone to get what he wants and doesn’t give a damn who he hurts or how much damage he does. He is really good at playing the one who is being abused and victimised and people still suck it up. As for the other person exposed in this site ,by accident as it has been pointed out, you decide and if some people cant or wont see the truth then it’s their problem and something they will come to regret. .

Alex Jackson

6/14/2018 01:22:52 am

Thanks Jess, will pass the information on to some who have asked me about it.
As an interested person said to me the other day, “For the first time someone stood up to him and exposed him as a fraud and a conman. I think that was a bit of a shock to him as it was not expected.”
But as it’s all documented and he can't deny it, it has been shown without any doubt that he does have NPD and by accident also shown that she probably does as well. So many different people from so many different places and different companies ,including their own families, simply can't be wrong or out to get them. The stories are just to similar. He has lied, manipulated, emotionally abused, financially abused, stolen from so many people for so long that the pattern is easy to see now that it has been exposed. . No one really cares about either of them anymore, but it's good to know where they are and where they work so that they can be avoided, which where they are employed at the moment will soon find out when their client base drops off. Far to many people know the truth and his so called experience and achievements on that company website has given quite a few people a good laugh , especially all the ones he left out. Did he really think no one would pick up on it? .

Max Rosenburg

6/14/2018 10:34:02 pm

As i said before, when you tell a lie the only way to cover it up is with more lies and the more you tell the bigger it gets until you just cant keep it together, then when it all crashes down around you its to late because everyone knows the truth and no one will ever believe anything you ever say again. Seems like this is what has happened to him and it was bound to eventually and no one has any sympathy for him. Once people lose the ability to trust you they never really get it back, they always remember that LIE and the things you did to hide it and the damage it caused and can never be sure anything you ever said or did in the past or will do in the future is a lie or the truth.So the wont take the chance to find out. .
He got a bit to cocky once to often by thinking no one would notice .

Vivian Walker. Canada

6/15/2018 02:49:42 pm

This is something everyone should be aware of. It's not just men who do this but women as well. Unless you have personally been subjected to this form of abuse or seen the devastating results when someone close to you has, then don't dismiss it as not true. The abuser is counting on you doing that. Narcissists/ sociopaths lie with such conviction in everything they say or do and people accept this because they come across as charming, caring people. It's all an act for your benefit and eventually when you can't provide anything for them in any way such as , backing up their lies,emotional support, financial support, as a step up in the job place, or anything else you have they can use, then you will see first hand what this sort of abuse is and the damage and destruction it causes. So read this website with an open mind and think long and hard before you dismiss it as not being true.

The following has been taken, with thanks, from another site and i have included one of the many replies to it.

“ So many times in cases of domestic abuse, we are asked for proof of the abuse. Sometimes we can show visible marks and bruises of the abuse as evidence. However in the case of emotional, verbal, psychological torture , these bruises are deep within us and rarely fully heal because they are not seen or recognised by a system geared towards facilitating abusive liars who deny their abuse and accuse their victims of what they do.”

“The war at home - if only someone knew.”

Reply::
I believe we as a society have set up these social constructs that continue the abuse. Further more victims have to prove the abuse that is unseen to a system set up for honoring "truth" which unless you have all the pieces it is hard for outside people or people who are uneducated about abuse patterns. It is what makes abuse so vague.

Never assume anything until you're sure of what the truth is.”

Two uniquely defining qualities that make the narcissist stand apart from the rest of functioning society.
The willingness- without blinking an eye - to cross all and any boundaries to get what they want.
The inability and or unwillingness to cooperate and compromise in life and within the pathological relationship agenda.

Zari Ballard.

Kelli Roberts

6/16/2018 01:17:26 pm

I totally agree with you. Never assume anything. And be very careful who you place your trust in, there are so many con artists and gold diggers out there as my late father called them, who will tell you whatever you want to hear to get whatever it is they want. A narcissist is not just a person who loves themselves as in the old myths, they are sick, evil, cruel parasites who dont give a damn about anyone but themselves. They will lie, cheat, steal, manipulate and abuse without feeling any remorse or guilt and if they are ever challenged for their behaviour like in this website ,will pull out the poor me , i'm the victim, i did nothing wrong card and throw the blame back on to the one they have used and abused. Then well meaning people who are ignorant of the true facts, who simply take the word of the abuser because they are such “ nice people” who would never do something so “terrible”, will make the pain and suffering of the real victim worse by accusing them of lying and being the abuser. This is not something that just happens in their personal or intimate relationships but in every aspect of their lives, business, workplace, social events, family, friends even neighbours, they will use everything and anyone to get what they want, including children. They will be whatever you want them to be and come across as different to everyone.
Look into their past and not the one they make up, but their real past, i guarantee you will be shocked by what you find.

Alex Jackson

6/18/2018 08:45:12 pm

A lot of good advice on here lately. And a lot of truths that certain people didn't want to come out and that others still can't see.
There is still more that has either been hidden or changed so dramatically to reflect a totally different situation its difficult to know what the truth is. Or that there is no concrete proof of, just someones story of what one or the other did. . But all these things will eventually come out in to the open and see the light of day, validating what has been stated .

The following statement is spot on..

“ The truth always comes out in the end no matter how hard someone tries to hide it.
Lies are just a temporary delay to the inevitable.”

NarcissisticandEmotionalAbuse.com

This site and others on Narcissistic abuse are worth reading. They provide a lot of information and help. I had no idea just how wide spread this problem was until Jess and Di set up this site, i don't think they did either and the information they were sent on them both was a bit of a shock. So if your still sitting on the fence and giving them the benefit of the doubt, get out there and educate yourself, learn all you can, it just might stop you from being a victim one day.

Marian Lightfoote

6/18/2018 10:30:49 pm

Your quite right, Alex, People need to be educated and made aware that not everyone is honest and truthful , that narcissists/ sociopaths exist in our lives and are usually so skilled at conning and manipulating those around them most of us never realise just what that charitable, caring, giving person really is and what they are doing until its to late. .

I thought this just might spur some of you on to find out the truth or get support if you have been through a similar experience.

“ As survivors, there is need for support ,recovery and growth groups.
Real groups where we can help each other move forward into the light, stop merely existing , start living and thriving.
We must created a network of support throughout the world to tackle the aftermath of narcissistic abuse.”

Debra Wright.
“The war at home-if only someone knew.”

I totally agree with this and that includes male victims as well as female. These parasites cause so much pain and suffering , have gotten away with this for years and continue to get away with it because people are not educated in the fact that Narcissists exist in every walk of life, it's nothing new, they have always been among us but now days with all the information available , thanks to the brave people who stood up to them, survived and told their stories and the internet, they are being exposed for who and what they really are. They are such accomplished and believable liars and as a narcissistic person was described to me, “ He could charm the birds out of the trees and take the gold from your teeth before you even realised it was happening”, It's up to all of us to see through their lies, ask questions and check out the facts before we believe anything they say and more importantly, before we dismiss claims of abuse by others, we were not there, we are only told one person's side of the story,after the fact i might add, we accept their version as truth because this person, “Is so nice” “ so caring”, and we need to ascertain who the real liar and abuser is. After all the same stories of manipulation, lies, emotional abuse, financial abuse, cheating, theft is being told over and over by different people who DO NOT know each other so there has to be more to it. Read the stories on these sites ,ask questions or tell your own story, there are many people who can give you answers or help.

Julia Michaelson.

6/19/2018 05:44:17 pm

If you deliberately cause pain to someone you profess to love then it's obvious that you don't love them, dont care about them, don't care for them and in all probability, never did. .
If you use another person to get what you want then it shows that you are not capable of getting what you want on your own merits or by your own achievements, like a parasite you have to use others..
If you use another for financial gain then it shows you have no confidence in yourself to succeed on your own.
If you lie to the point where you believe your lies to be truth then the only one you are conning, is yourself.
If when you do the wrong thing , you can't apologise or try to make things right then your showing the world you can't be trusted or relied on.

We love our narcissists with more passion and intensity than in a more normal relationship, i feel it's because we somehow intuitively know they are broken and regardless of their positive attitude we know just how sad and miserable they are deep inside. So we give them more and more of ourselves to try to compensate for what they lack but in doing so we are slowly destroying ourselves and who we are and inadvertently involving those close to us who also suffer in the end..

You can't help everyone, you cant save everyone from themselves, some people are going to destroy themselves no matter how hard you try, how much you give or how much your forgive. By accepting who and what they are, by being honest, seeing the truth, telling the truth, we have a chance to save those they will take down with them, including ourselves, in their never ending quest to prove to themselves and the world that they are worth more than anyone else, that they are entitled to have what others have, that they have the right to take what they want by any means available. That gaining what they want by lying, cheating, manipulating is acceptable because if they don't get in first then others will do it to them, so in a way it's a survival technique for them. Do unto others before they do it to you, is in effect the way their minds work. They feel nothing for those they use, to them you are a commodity, a means to an end, so never ever think they love you as they dont know and were never taught what love is, to them the word, “ love” is just that, a word to use to gain an advantage. The same applies to any friendships they establish, a friend is someone to keep around to use in whatever way they can. Our love and caring is not enough at times to repair the broken parts of a person. Better to just walk away and leave them to self destruct to save your sanity and at times your life.

Karen Matthews

6/22/2018 11:55:40 pm

“The more we know, the more we realise, the less we know.”

This is particularly true of anyone with NPD. They tell such wonderful stories of their accomplishments , lies roll off their tongues with such ease and passion that it's hard not to believe them, the stories of how they have been abused, used and victimised by so many people, really pulls at your heartstrings. It gets to a point where you don't know fact from fiction , truth from lies. Things just don't add up and your left confused and doubting yourself.
Your left wondering if your supporting them against whoever it is they insist is victimising them is the right thing to do or not.

Which is what they want!!!

They manipulate, they con, they use, they lie, they cheat, they steal ,then deny doing any of that and they accuse you of being unreasonable and paranoid and that not supporting them you are contributing to the abuse they claim they are or have suffered , until your not sure if it's true or not.

So you're completely correct in what you say, some people are just so broken they simply cannot be fixed and the harder you try the more you are hurt. Walking away is the only option. You can try to alert others to the true character of the person but most times it's too late because the Narcissist has managed to convince them that they are the real victim and you are the problem.

Marian Lightfoote

6/23/2018 11:11:40 am

I have put together some quotes from different articles and websites to answer some of the frequently asked questions and give further insight into the latest posts about how you can’t fix all broken people.
“ If you really want to believe people are essentially good but they just make mistakes, especially if the person in question is someone you know and care about, you will go to great lengths to protect that belief. In fact, the more “mistakes” that person makes and the deeper the rabbit hole goes, the harder you fight to maintain the belief because it’s almost too scary to believe how absolutely wrong you were and how close to darkness you’ve actually been sitting the entire time.”
“ You sit around hoping you’re wrong that something’s not right every time you hear about another crazy story even though you know deep down you’re not and you wonder how long you can go on fooling yourself.
And yet it’s easier to believe that you’re wrong about how bad it is than to have to consider that everything you know about him could be a facade, or to figure out which pieces were real.”
" Other people are attracted to narcissists for the same reason that boyfriends and girlfriends are. They can be charming, charismatic and mirror back to you positive things about yourself. They make grand promises and occasionally deliver. They are good with words and great at denying, blame-shifting and gaslighting. They can be a lot of fun to be around when you can come up with the right excuses to write off their “quirks.”
“ The fan club ignores the warnings and red flags that something isn’t right about the narcissist when they know damn well some of the things he or she does aren’t normal or acceptable and may be flat-out immoral. Yet they provide him or her with “outs” or excuses and sweep things under the rug. They may also engage in neutralization, throwing their hands up and saying, “Well, there’s two sides to every story,” or worse, put the blame on the victims. They listen to the sob stories when the narcissist tries to paint himself or herself as the real victim and may unwittingly or even knowingly help him or her engage in damaging actions. Or perhaps they just turn a blind eye and refuse to speak up and call it out for what it is.
The narcissist needs all of these people who provide a cover of normalcy. They allow him or her to believe that what they are doing is justifiable and they help them maintain their impression management that their lifestyle is normal. “He’s a good guy, he just has problems.” “She’s such a good person.” How many times have you heard this?"
" Narcissists and sociopaths are great at seeming like tortured souls, magicians who make decisions that inflict horrific pain on others which then tends to throw things around them into chaos that they claim to have no control over or don’t understand the magnitude of.”
“ A narcissist will keep people around who will agree with him or her and make him or her feel good about him or herself. That describes most of us, but a narcissist will take it to the extreme and analyze the comments and behaviors of the people they interact with to gauge their status within the circle and just how useful they are and for how long.”

Jeff Feeney

6/23/2018 05:02:01 pm

You don't need to hear their excuses or what they have to say. Their actions have already spoken for them.

They lie:
To make their lives seem more exciting.
To exaggerate their past achievements.
To gain sympathy and support.
To gain financially.
To make others look small and insignificant.
To steal, ideas, positions, financial support.
To destroy someone who is in their way.
To play the victim.
To gain any and everything the want.
To blame everyone else when things go wrong.
To themselves so that they can live in complete denial about any wrongs they do .
To never feel guilty about their lying.

Opening your eyes to the truth can be the most painful thing you will ever do.
Sometimes things or people are just too broken to fix regardless of how much you love them or are attached to them.

Debbie Walters

6/24/2018 12:25:21 pm

We all know what they did and the lies they came up with to try and explain that they did nothing wrong and we all know the truth now about everything they have ever done.
He is so broken no amount of care will ever put the pieces back together and so is she . Both think they are untouchable and can do whatever they like regardless of who they hurt. Deny and ignore what they have done and it never happened. Lying is a way of life to them and happens every time they open their mouths. Most of us who still have anything to do with either of them just listen to what they say with fascination as they dig the hole deeper and then walk away . Because they lie repeatedly they believe their own lies. They really have no choice in this because if they admit the truth then they destroy the fantasy they live in and ultimately, themselves. Just simply don't get involved with them in any way for any reason, either personal or business, it's the only way to protect yourself from ultimately being used, abused, manipulated, lied to, cheated on and then blamed and discarded without a second thought.

A message for the Cheater and the Cheatee ( the person reveling in the stealing of a married person), and the betrayal BOTH cause. Both the Cheater and the Cheatee knew what they were doing was wrong and no excuse they come up with will change that.
“The person who cheated ( and the cheatee) should take responsibility and not make—or stop making—excuses. I believe you’re more likely to do it again if you deflect blame and make excuses, because you got away with it and have established the pattern.”
All narcissists / sociopaths are repeat cheaters, since their level of contentmentment is very susceptible to boredom. They are super prone to boredom, and are deathly afraid of "boredom”, or because their latest source of supply no longer can provide what they want or simply to prove they can get what and who they want.
~ Jessica O’Reilly, PhD,

Alex Jackson

6/25/2018 05:12:58 pm

After speaking to others who have read the site , some who know them, we all agreed that they knew what they were doing and knew that it was wrong and the pain it would cause but neither cared, so no excuse they come up with will cut it or be acceptable.
The most popular reason given is that it just happened, they fell in love, blah blah blah.
But what they are leaving out according to what is in this site is the fact that he lied to and cheated on his wife for over a year, that shows just what they were doing and by hiding it for so long shows they knew it was wrong. Then take into account that he played his wife for months after leaving to get everything he could off her , didn't tell her about the other woman, “ so much for it being love”??? made all those promises he had no intention of keeping, orchestrated the suicide attempt, filed for divorce without telling her and still no mention of the other woman, reneged on the financial agreement HE had made up and the list goes on and on. The other woman knew what she was doing and was a party to all this. So yea, the cheater and the cheatee knew exactly what they were doing, shows just what kind of people they really are.
Both have been caught out in the lies big time and shown that they both have done this sort of thing before and probably will do it again.
It reads a bit like that politician and his mistress, watched the interview they gave and read his wife's response recently, very very similar.
The fact that he accepted being the other woman's second choice , was still going back to his wife while she decided, playing the poor me i'm confused but i love you, wait for me, trust me and that she was screwing him and another man at the same time really shows the world just how true everything that has been said about them is. Both manipulating Narcissists and thats the truth.
But you will still get the few gullible people who will believe them, fortunately most do not.
This site also exposed a lot of things in their past they would have prefered never became public and both have a lot to answer for. So anyone who has contact with them, watch your back, your as disposable as his wives and anyone both have used.

Matt Rogers

6/26/2018 02:17:18 am

Would i ever trust either of them in anything, would i trust them to keep their word, would i trust them to tell the truth. would i trust them to be competent and professional enough to fulfill the requirements of the position they are employed to do. Would i trust either of them around my spouse or partner, be they male of female.??? Well, lets see, ummm, honestly? Thats a NO!!!

Brad Dunn

6/26/2018 11:46:40 am

Yeah mate, you get a big thumbs up on that from more than they know. Some might have to pretend otherwise for now but thats all it is, pretend. Their opinions are the same as yours.

Marian Lightfoote

6/26/2018 02:38:15 pm

Link to an Interesting article if you care to read it in full.
https://thepowerofsilence.co/21-stages-of-the-relationship-between-a-narcissist-and-an-empath/
These attributes apply to both the male and female Narcissist and are used not just in an intimate romantic relationships but in friendships, with family and the workplace as well. Children are perfect targets and so easy to get on their side because children are natural empaths and feel compassion and place their trust in those who care about them or in this case, pretend to care..
1st of 21 stages.
The Narcissist attracts the empath. They begin a relationship. The empaths love is deep and unconditional. The Narcissist on the other hand has no intention of developing a long lasting stronger connection and getting close to the empath. The empath falsely thinks that their love is being reciprocated.
3rd of the 21 stages.
The Narcissist will never openly attack the empath but will say things like, “ I don't mean to hurt you but?”.
7th of the 21 stages.
The more affection, devotion, effort, care , love and trust the empath gives the Narcissist, the more in control the Narcissist is.
12th of the 21 stages.
The empath fails to understand that they are being manipulated. The empath is being manipulated to a point where they cannot believe their own perceptions and sanity.
16th of the 21 stages.
The empath will eventually realize the bitter truth that the narcissist does not deserve their affection, love, and care. They must understand that not everyone who puts a sad face on is showing their true colors. There are many people out there who have vile motives and use many manipulative techniques to get what they want. The empath must face the brutal truth that not everyone who says ‘I love you’ really means it.
19th of the 21 stages.
The narcissist will go on with their life as if nothing has happened. They won't even remember the enormous love and appreciation the empath gave them or the faith, trust and belief the empath had in them. The narcissist will move on and find another victim without any feeling of guilt, remorse or regret.

Margaret Lonnigan. SA.

6/26/2018 10:54:58 pm

If you made the time and effort to check out their past including what is on here about them, i am sure you would find that both have been on several occasions either the “ cheater” or the “cheatee” as it was put. As for not trusting them around a member of your family of the opposite sex as has been stated, i feel that is a wise decision. I would say neither have any morals or scruples and feel they can cross and ignore any boundaries to obtain whatever it is they desire, regardless of it being against the morality, rules and laws that society expects to be adhered to.

An interesting and quite true characteristic of a person with NPD.

“ Days , even weeks will go by, you will be ignored, snubbed and disrespected. Eventually you will try to get to the bottom of why you are being treated like this. They will fob you off as if they are so hurt and offended by some transgression you committed that you were not even aware of. The details of this terrible thing you did will be vague and you will not even remember how or when you wronged them.
Eventually you will crack and hit back. They will look at you with wide eyed innocence. “ Look at how you carry on”, they will say. “ I am not the one who was wronged and being rude and disrespectful, you are”.
They practice the art of passive aggression with calculated precision.

Debra Wright. “ The war at home-if only someone knew

Jesse Franklin

6/27/2018 04:39:42 pm

After helping set up this site, having personal contact and knowing Dianne for many years and Kingsley via emails and calls, reading the comments and emails from so many others, having personal contact with some who also have read it or who had personal contact in some way with either of them, as well as reading other sites about this conduct, speaking to those who know them and those who dont, others who have been through similar situations, those who had never heard of and knew nothing about NPD and professionals who deal with this on a daily basis, they all agree on the following.

A predator will always be a predator.
A parasite cannot survive without a host.
A pathological liar will never tell the truth.
A narcissist will always shift the blame to others and insist they are the victim.
They will always be, in their minds, above the constraints and conditions of normal society and never accept that there are boundaries of morality that should be followed and accepted.
That they have the right to take what they want regardless of who is hurt in the process. This includes emotional support, possessions,finances, ideas, others achievements, job positions and another person's partners or spouse.
That they will never admit to themselves , to others or to their victims that they did anything wrong. To do so would destroy the illusions they have about themselves.
They will never apologise to or offer to assist their victims to regain what they have lost or had taken from them. This includes physical abuse, emotional abuse , financial abuse, loss of dignity ,self worth, self respect or health issues, both in their personal and professional lives.
Once you have been used up and discarded they never ever acknowledge you existed and are wiped from their memory and their past. If it is ever brought up by anyone, they refuse to discuss it, as it is, as they put it, “ to painful to talk about”.
OR UNLESS….. you stand up and expose them , then you will be portrayed as being the abuser and they will insist they are the victim. Unfortunately because they are so accomplished at playing the victim, their lies are so believable, they portray themselves as genuine caring people, there are those who will believe that you are the aggressor and give them sympathy and support without bothering to find out all the facts and the truth.

Every single person has agreed on one thing.

“ They are what they are and will never change.”

Once you accept this and realise that waiting for or expecting an apology or for them to admit what they did was wrong , is never going to happen, you will find it becomes easier to begin putting your life back together and can move on. A bit battered and bruised emotionally and financially, but a lot wiser.

So if this site and the many others like it alerts everyone to the fact that this is real, these people do exist, in all walks of life and in every country, that anyone with NPD cannot be trusted or believed, if you do put your trust and belief in them then you are setting yourself up for an emotional roller coaster ride and that sites like this and others gives you the information and tools to see through the lies and manipulative tactics before you become a victim, then it has been worth it. After many posts ,comments and questions i was convinced that i should write and post this, so thanks to those who insisted that i do.

Alex Jackson

6/28/2018 09:03:26 pm

Thanks Jess, an easy to understand explanation of this whole dirty mess. I think most of us have worked it out for ourselves and agree with you.
I know how gutted you were when you found out he had lied and manipulated you into helping him convince her that he loved her and was coming back, to trust him and all that other crap. As i told you previously, it wasn't your fault, you never met him in person and you were only trying to help someone you cared about. You got nothing to feel guilty about mate and i know she doesn't blame you so that's all that matters. To him you were just another person to use to get him what he wanted. And that my friend is something we all see.
It shows just how good he is at this and if there are still fools that believe his crap after everything that has been said ,then it's their look out, it cant be put any plainer than it has been, guess the same goes for his cheatee as well, i like that word. Rolls off the tongue nicely. :).

Jackie Randall

6/28/2018 10:41:59 pm

I have read this site and others with great interest. Sites that when i was a young girl were not available and i wish they had been.
In an ideal world we would live and interact with kind, considerate people who have our best interests at heart.
Sadly that is a far cry from the world we live in today.
There appears to be an increase in people who are simply out for themselves, people who are controlling and demanding, people who put their needs and wants before anyone else and people who refuse to play by society's rules and the laws of decency. They trample and destroy anyone on their way to the top. There are those who need constant attention and admiration, those who will put others down to elevate themselves, those who will cause unimaginable pain to the people closest to them, who love, trust and believe in them and show zero sympathy, shame, remorse or empathy for the damage they cause so deliberately, this includes to the most vulnerable of us, our children. This world is full of people who will lie, cheat, steal, destroy someone's soul and mind, their reputation , self worth and dignity, because in their twisted minds they believe they deserve to have what they want regardless of who it hurts and that the one they used, deserves to be used.

Maybe its always been that way but with the coming of modern times such as the internet, the media, television, current affairs programs and people being able to reach others anywhere in the world at the touch of a button to tell their stories, stories that are chillingly familiar, it's easier to expose these greedy, selfish uncaring, immoral people.

These people are Narcissists/ Sociopaths/ Psychopaths.

Read all you can about them, learn how they play their games , the signs to look for, because there will be times in your life you will be interacting with them, you can't avoid them but you can learn how to fight back and survive.

Marian Lightfoote

6/29/2018 12:36:39 pm

Interesting article that may help with some of the questions being asked.
If you are a caring compassionate person, it is natural to feel sorry for others who suffer, including the narcissist. If you’re especially empathetic, it is your “normal” to feel others’ pain and to try to caretake them on the road toward peace and happiness.
Taking care of others can be deeply rewarding, but it comes with risks and the need for firm boundaries. For professionals attempting to treat Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), the results are limited at best. For those living with NPD in partners or parents, day-to-day life can be painfully challenging, with no solutions in sight.
The narcissist is believed to have experienced a profoundly defining emotional injury at a very young age. “Narcissist injury” may be the result of abuse, loss, or a mixture of such deprivation with overindulgence and/or a highly sensitive nature.
Fundamentally, narcissists are stuck emotionally at the approximate developmental level of a three year old, and consequently they lack the most basic ability to care about the feelings, needs, and perspectives of others. Yet, as savvy adults, their powers of manipulation are off the charts.
At first glance, the narcissist may appear to be a tragically sympathetic figure. But the catch, and it’s a big one, is that narcissists are pathologically selfish, compulsive liars and stunningly cruel.
Those with NPD aren’t just more self-centered than most of us on the human continuum. They are, in fact, severely lacking in or altogether devoid of empathy and as a result are capable of terrible moral and legal crimes, all serving to prop the larger-than-life false self they have constructed to supplant their feelings of essential worthlessness.
Whether extroverted or introverted, narcissists assert a self that is superior, entitled, and above reproach. They are driven to continuously make a display of their grandiose “needs” at the expense of others. They do not take responsibility for their words or actions. They believe they deserve special treatment. They only “give” conditionally to get back. And they utilize a wide toolkit to get their way.
While their extravagant and manipulative agendas come from the same pathology, narcissists of the overt type are more obviously aggressive, using ridicule and rage, while covert narcissists are passive-aggressive, using guilt and pity-plays.
Narcissists use many strategies to get their way, assert their grandeur, and avoid accountability. Here are classic narcissist tactics:
Criticizes. Competes. violates boundaries. Manipulates. terrorizes. Lies. shames. belittles. Ridicules. denies. projects.gaslights. Deflects. Steals. cheats. blames. plays the victim
Have a narcissist parent, spouse, lover, or friend? Forget right now about reforming them. It may sound unbearably harsh, but reforming a hardcore narcissist is a debilitating delusion. Look online at major narcissist abuse recovery websites and social media forums, and you will discover a galaxy of hurt.
Narcissists are masterful at hooking people, dangling their finest bait to attract their next blood meal. The bait is typically intense idealization: excessive attentiveness and flattery; abrupt expressions of intimacy; and sudden, premature declarations of love and commitment. For the noncommittal narcissist, devaluation follows the idealization phase. As quickly as s/he exalted you, s/he launches a litany of criticisms, complaints, and “rational” reasons for rage.
But even as the narcissist’s cast off, you are likely to find that the hook in your mouth is hard to free yourself from.
If it is not already screamingly evident, feeling sorry for the narcissist is an invitation to being abused and victimized—idealized, devalued, and rejected; or, worse, agonizingly anchored. Do not tell yourself that you are “the one” to heal the narcissist.
The narcissist cannot and will never love you as you need and deserve to be loved. She / He will harm your children and larger family. In short,She / He will become your biggest regret.
Julie L. Hall, author of The Narcissist Family Files Blog

Luke Norman. UK

7/1/2018 02:44:06 pm

Have found this site and the many other sites recommended by those who post on here very helpful and informative. Hopefully my small contribution will be of assistance to you.
Emotional abuse can be every bit as devastating to individuals and relationships as physical and sexual abuse. And the pain of experiencing emotional abuse can be heightened when you feel unsure whether what you are experiencing is normal or okay. You may feel something is wrong but be unable to identify what it is. You may find yourself spending a great deal of time trying to put yourself in the other person’s shoes and understand where they are coming from. You may notice you are altering your behavior in order to keep the peace or avoid conflict.
Emotional abuse occurs when one person—intentionally or otherwise, consciously or unconsciously—engages in behavior that insults, threatens, rejects, neglects, blames, manipulates, isolates, degrades, punishes, humiliates, or exerts control over another. Fear, guilt, and shame are among common responses to, and goals of, emotional abuse.
Although it is most often thought of in terms of intimate partner relationships, emotional abuse can occur in other types of relationships as well. Parent-child relationships, for example, can be marked by emotional abuse, sometimes continuing well into adulthood. Covert emotional abuse and manipulation is more prevalent in the workplace than you realise.
Emotional abuse is more often characterized by a pattern or collection of behaviors over time that can be difficult to recognize. Some of these behaviors, when taken on their own, might not necessarily be thought of as abusive. It is the systematic application of these behaviors, with an intention to change the way another responds, that is destructive.
People who are emotionally abusive can be expert manipulators. They may be very intentional about choosing behaviors that cannot be proven or that come close to crossing lines while retaining deniability. They may manufacture or maintain a chaotic environment, so that it is hard to pin down or describe exactly what is happening. They may also lie about what has happened or rewrite history in order to avoid responsibility for their actions.
Individuals who behave in emotionally abusive ways do not respect boundaries.
Perhaps the most perplexing phenomenon of all is the ability of abusive individuals is their Jekel and Hyde personality. They can switch personalities at will depending on who the target is , coming across as a genuine, kind, caring, thoughtful and generous person at times , .Theycan be loving, helpful and supportive. The confusing fact of the matter is individuals who are capable of cruelty are capable of hiding it. They may be charming and generous at times but this is simply a tactic to sway you into a false sense acceptance.. They can be whoever or whatever you want them to be to many different people in many different situations, they study you to determine what you want that they can use to give them the greatest return. Which is why others find it difficult to believe that this person has acted in an immoral or abusive manner, because to them they are a totally different person than the one you have stated.

Jesse Franklin

7/2/2018 02:08:28 pm

I have been asked recently how the site is going, because of work, family commitments , taking the family back home for the holidays and a few weeks laid up with some deadly disease that i just managed to survive, “ man Flu” as my wife so sympathetically put it, i haven't have the chance to check out the stats.
So did a quick check:
Average the last 6 months ::: 1100 / 1400 hits, views a month. 300 /350 a week.
70% regular frequent visitors, each visited the site on average 1 / 2 times a week Per Month.
30% new visitors::: First time viewers. Average Per Month.
6% Australia
6% United Kingdom.
5% United States.
5% Europe.
2% Canada.
2% Asia.
2% South Africa.
2% United Arab Emirates.
After visiting the site more than once you go into the frequent visitors percentage so there are a few new first time viewers every month.
It's still doing quite well considering its been running for almost 4 years and is still of interest to so many. Still getting a fair bit of communication via emails with both current and past information on them and with thanks for pointing out the truth, that i try to keep up with.. So they have become quite well known and not for anything good or positive they have done. Thanks to all for the comments / posts, the emails and the occasional personal contact. You guys are responsible for keeping it going and spreading it far and wide. Well done. :)
So hope this answers the question of how it's doing.
Jess.
“ Karma comes after everyone eventually. You can't get away with screwing people over your whole life , i don't care who you are.
What goes around comes around . That's how it works.
Sooner or later the universe will serve you the revenge that you deserve.”

Carl Mitchell

7/5/2018 01:44:46 am

Good to see its still going strong. Many thanks for the information, it's been enlightening and helpful.

Debbie Walters

7/5/2018 02:07:21 am

Know a few who have read it and who will continue to do so. They now understand that all is not as is seems and never really was. Those around them are wary of them and take more care . Gaining trust will always be an issue for them now and in the future and anything they say is well and truly checked out before believing it. .
“ A Narcissists moods and behaviour will depend on the audience. They can change from being the spawn of the Devil to Angelic and sweet in the blink of an eye. Their audience is the deciding factor. Don't be fooled by this, its a ploy to suck in whoever they are targeting. Who they really are is simply put on hold and they will revert back to their natural selves once they have what they were after.
Don't be fooled, never forget that they are master manipulators and have the game down pat. Not only will they will twist and turn the truth to justify what they did , to get sympathy and support while throwing the blame on the victim but also to obtain whatever it is they want.. The only truth they know is what they decide is the truth.”

Marian Lightfoote

7/5/2018 11:34:25 am

The site has become well known in many quarters for its information on narcissistic abuse and will continue to be used for reference and clarification. It's a very familiar story to many and has been extremely useful in helping others who experienced similar abuse to understand the how and why of it and realise that they are not alone and not to blame. Im sure it will continue to be read by many for a long time.

Hayley Miller

7/5/2018 04:06:59 pm

Anyone who has been the target of emotional abuse, who has been used ,abused and manipulated financially and emotionally , either male or female by a con artist ( Narcissist / sociopath) in their personal or family situation or in the workplace, should be able to report this person without fear of being accused of lying, being vindictive or not being believed and painted as the aggressor.. If you have proof all the better, but the sort of people who commit these acts do so in such a way that they come across as a nice person who is being victimised and wrongly accused. They are so good at this, so believable and act so vulnerable and that's why they get away with it for so long. They rarely leave physical proof. This site shows that the smallest piece of physical evidence , documents , text messages, emails will get others thinking of their past encounters with them and they soon realise just what exactly happened and they will talk about it reinforcing the present victims claims. The victims are usually to emotionally traumatised and financially ruined to be able to stand up for themselves and when they do they are the ones who are upset, confused and angry and come across as the aggressor which the narcissist uses to their advantage to prove to those around them that they are the innocent ones.
Sites like this one and the many others available give support and hope to victims and show them that they too can stand up and tell the true story, that they will not be believed by some because the narcissist has manipulated them with lies and conditioned them to believe their convincing display of innocence but take heart in the fact that eventually others will see the truth.
So keep this site going, it's been helpful to many others who had given up and has shown them that they do not have to be scared of speaking the truth and put them in contact with not only others who have had similar experiences with one or the other of these two individuals but others of the same calibre as them. The more that people talk to each other about their conduct and actions the more they understand just what they are and what really happened and that they were not to blame or at fault in any way. Those that believed and supported the narcissist will eventually admit that they were conned and apologise to the real victim, as has happened with this site , others will unfortunately never believe that this nice, kind, person did these horrific , cruel, destructive things and there is not much that can be done about that but they will eventually be discarded by the narcissist when they are of no further use and that's when they will realise who the perpetrator really was and is, what the truth is and that they were used ,most times when this happens and it will sooner or later, they will be an emotional wreck themselves.. Its encouraging to see that this site has such a large and diverse following and is constantly being passed on to others.

Danny Loeston

7/5/2018 10:48:43 pm

Keep up the good work. Has helped out a lot of people.Its a story that needed to be told. I'm sure there will be a lot more reading it. Forewarned is forearmed.
Will continue to read it for as long as its around. They are still a topic of discussion and quite a lot of us give each other updates. Thanks for the heads up.

Alex Jackson

7/6/2018 03:55:27 pm

It's good to see the site is still going strong. What started out as a story about one person's encounter with a lying, thieving con man turned into something much bigger. I don't think it was released at the time he was a narcissist / sociopath, not to many people had ever heard of it, including myself, i just thought a narcissist was a person who thought they were great and loved themself. But once the door was opened so many people from different places and times came out with stories about him going back years , it wasn't the first time he had done this, not just in his personal relationships but so much damage done to those he worked with or for. It was a bit of a shock to a lot of people to realise that they had been used, abused ,manipulated and lied to, that they were not the only ones. It also gave peace of mind to those who thought they were in the wrong and deserved what happened to them or who lost their jobs over his / her actions and showed those who supported him in backing him up just how wrong they were and how much damage they contributed to those who were blameless, some i know even went so far as to apologise those people. Then as an added bonus, it exposed the other person in this triangle as being exactly the same as him, not something that was expected and again came as a shock to a lot of people who suddenly had different things that were confusing and didnt make sense fall into place. So yeah mate, its a good site, has helped a lot of people, shown just what they are and how much damage and misery they have caused for years and got away with it. I will continue to keep up with it and read the comments for as long as it's around and pass it on to those i feel need to read it. As its been stated, there are those who will continue to believe the BS and lies they come out with regardless of what proof is given and that's their problem as more than enough evidence to the contrary has been provided. But there are also more and more people who are wary of them, who see through the lies and walk away. The articles and stories on narcissism in general posted by so many both professional and medical who deal with NPD and those who have been through a similar situation either with one or both of them or someone else , has to say the least been interesting and totally enlightening. Someone posted that it was a story that needed to be told and by telling it it exposed things about him / her that were not known, hidden and lied about. Things that they thought would never come out , that must have shocked them a bit and i know it sent him into damage control with more lies to cover up the original lies.

Sammi Jaimeson

7/7/2018 02:31:21 pm

Interesting, informative and helpful. Has cleared up the misconceptions i and several others had and as previously stated, opened the door on the truth not only about those in this site but narcissists and sociopaths in general with all the information provided from and links to other sites.. Have included the following as i have personally found it to be typical and accurate behaviour.

Part of an interesting article, to read in full go to the website below
RELATIONSHIP STAGES WITH A NARCISSIST or BORDERLINE and TRIANGULATION.
By Dr Tara Palmatier. www.themindsjournal.com
"In the end, once a new source of supply (e.g., ass kissing, financial support, sex, someone who believes the narcissist’s false self is the real self) has been secured, you will be discarded. New supply is tastier, juicier and more robust than old depleted supply who has seen behind the narcissist’s mask.
Whether you realize it or not, you’ve probably never been à deux, “ just two people”, in your relationship. Narcissists and borderlines triangulate. It’s important to understand this because a narcissist typically won’t discard until she or he has a new source of supply, a third party with which to replace the old supply.
As the devaluation stage progresses, the narcissist seeks out and grooms fresh supply. Once they’ve found their new hero-angel, that’s it."

Pat Tennery USA

7/7/2018 05:06:22 pm

Thanks to Faye Armitage for the following article taken from her site. I thought it may be useful and this is another way to get it out there for many more to read.

Narcissistic abuse doesn’t happen suddenly, it’s insidious , creeping in slowly, until one day you don’t recognise yourself. It is the epitome of domestic violence, a slowly dehumanising and purposeful rape of your mind, soul and finances.
Narcissists install a filter in our head, managing our expectations down a little bit at a time. Before we know it, everything we do, say or think goes through this filter .Will he / she get upset if i do, say or think this?. Will he / she approve or disapprove?. Will he / she feel hurt by this?. Will he / she be angry if i dont give them what they want?. Our own wants, needs, desires are brushed aside so often that eventually we are conditioned not to have them. Expressing our needs only leads to pain and emotional punishment.
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Don't just assume this behaviour happens only in a personal intimate relationship, the same tactics are used in any situation by the Narcissist, with those they befriend, other family members, especially children, business associates and is prevalent in the workplace.

Cathy Bowell

7/8/2018 04:19:34 am

After reading this site and the many others on this subject there is one hard and true fact that regardless of who you are or where you are, you simply cannot dispute. “ They cannot be trusted in anything. If they do it once they will do it again and that is a fact.”
5 Ways to spot a narcissist, sociopath, psychopath by Naomi Cotterill
Narcissists, sociopaths,Psychopaths, they walk amongst us, yet they look just like everyone else making them very difficult to identify.
While that may sound a bit over dramatic, chances are good you’ve had a run in with someone who displays some of the characteristics displayed by your textbook psychopath, sociopath or narcissist. Most psychopaths are not deranged, imprisoned criminals. Most narcissists / sociopaths are not driving around in the latest model Porsche. Much more likely they tend to be those people in your life who make you doubt who you are as a person. They have the ability to shake your self-belief and rock your core beliefs and values. They could be a friend, family member, partner, co-worker – the list is endless.
Psychopaths, sociopaths, and narcissists share a particular set of traits that will eventually make any healthy person feel crazy.
1.They’re superficially charming – they can best be described as chameleons. They are constantly changing to suit their chosen target. Whichever persona you get to know you can generally be assured that it’s not authentic.
2.They try to manufacture negativity – they are experts at intentionally causing chaos and calamity. They favour a pattern of provocation followed by retreat whereby they’ll act shock at your reaction to their previous attempts to rile you up.
3.You catch them in lies (repeatedly)– their default mode is to lie. They spend so much time switching between different stories and personas that it’s easier for them to fabricate than to revert back to the truth. Even if you catch these kinds of people out in an “active lie” they’ll deny it.
4.They are incapable of guilt or shame – A normal reaction to an interaction that may have gone awry is guilt, shame or remorse. They feel none of these things. They revel in creating unpleasantness. Anyone who enjoys inflicting discord and upset without any remorse is someone to cut ties with immediately.
5.They enjoy turning people against each other – When they enter the picture, you’ll find yourself disliking people you’ve never even met. This is a primary tactic used to create discord, tension and ultimately the breakdown of as many relationships as possible.
Psychopathic abuse is insidious and difficult to pinpoint. It gets internalised. So always be alert to the signs , dont ignore them, they allow you to see the difference between “normal” and “irregular” behaviour and helps you realise that it’s actually not you !. That it is them.

Ann Harrison

7/10/2018 03:27:01 am

I do not personally know nor have i ever met either of the two people portrayed in this website. But if i ever do for whatever reason be required to interact with them i now am armed with the knowledge not to be fooled and will keep them at arms length and treat them with caution and distrust.
The story published on here with all the documentation and proof , along with the stories of others, the articles from other sites and the links to those sites , plus the opinions and information about them, has been a source of invaluable information to not only myself but to others i know and i am sure many many more.
Narcissism is or was a unknown disorder to many who were convinced that they were they problem not the instigator. Once it was explained how they accomplished this with their emotional abuse, gaslighting, lies and support from their group of flying monkeys ,not only myself but another of those victims that i do know, changed our belief and the conditioning that we were put through to convince us that we were the cause and deserved what happened to us and with help from professionals , friends and family were able to put our lives back together and once again became the person that we were, but a lot wiser and more cautious as to who we put our trust in.
So really all i wanted to say was thank you, i am sure it was a difficult and hard thing to talk and write about , i find it still is for me at times, but by opening that door to the truth and an understandable and personal explanation , you have done a service to those you don't know but who know you through this site and appreciate everything you have done to assist them and others on the road to the truth , understanding and recovery. We have made several friends, be it by social media because of distance , that we can talk to about our experiences, our steps to heal not only ourselves but other family members, especially our children and friends who were affected by the narcissist in our midst, because they have been there as well and have gone through everything we have.
We will continue to read not only this site but the other recommended sites and articles, we will continue to pass on the links to this and other sites to those who should be made aware of the truth.

Max Rosenburg

7/10/2018 03:38:52 pm

A couple of things people need to be reminded of. I get a lot out of reading this site and the others. It continues to remind me that not everyone is honest and trustworthy regardless of who they are , what they say or how they act and to pick your friends wisely.

If you are neutral in situations of injustice , you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
Your silence gives them permission to continue to use, abuse and manipulate others.
If you ignore facts, ignore truth, then you are telling the oppressed that they are liars and the oppressor is not.
If you are neutral and stay silent then you are equally responsible for the pain ,suffering and damage inflicted by the oppressor.
Using as an excuse, “ I don't want to get involved”, “ It doesn't affect me”, “it's not my problem”, is wrong. Once you know the facts, you are involved, it does affect you ,it is your problem. It's your response that is the problem , that is the unacceptable excuse not to stand up for those that you know have been treated unfairly, have been used and abused. Making you a part of the abuse.

A friend is someone who will sit with you on cold winter nights and walk with you in silence.
A friend is someone who lifts you UP, NOT puts you DOWN or Belittles you.
A friend walks in when the rest of the world walks out on you.
A friend is someone who shares your sense of joy and humour.
A friend is someone who looks forward to the times you are together.
A good friend is there when life demands more strength than you alone can muster.
A friend will defend you when your right and tell you when your wrong.
Your best friend is the one who is your partner, your lover , your wife/ husband.
The one person you can count on through the good times and bad.
If your best friend ticks all these boxes then they are a keeper and you have it all.
Unfortunately, not all best friends are honest and true and are not worth keeping..

Matt Cummings

7/10/2018 10:12:52 pm

Things i have learnt about Narcissists and their lies. So keep them in mind when dealing with a person you suspect of being as narcissist and a liar.
Narcissistic liars can’t help but twist their stories into some convoluted tale that makes no sense in the end. They tell lies, but must cover these up with more lies in order to keep the “facts” straight, when in reality it just makes it all less believable. Narcissistic Liars typically come up with complex stories in order to convince you that they are, in fact, telling the truth, but this marks a surefire sign of a liar in action.
Even if they add or revoke small details, this further proves that their original story had no merit. They probably forgot most of the tale they told since it never really happened, which means they can try and confuse you more with additional fabrications. If they try to change their story, ask them what they initially told you – as they fumble over the details, you can rest assured that you have finally caught them in their own lie.
Any mention of the lies they’ve told makes them feel uncomfortable, so they like to quickly take the attention off of themselves and bring up a more neutral topic. Usually, they make this quite obvious so that you will start to get frustrated, which makes their whole scheme even more fun to them. Look out for these sudden subject changes, because that’s your chance to really dig deep and ask them tough questions.
If they had nothing to hide, why would they get angry about you interrogating them? People who tell the truth will act calm when put on the spot, and will offer logical explanations about their behavior. Meanwhile, liars have to deal with all the turmoil they’ve created, and must justify it, which they do by telling more lies. They will start to show signs of anger; they might ball their fists, cross their arms, have an enraged look in their eyes, walk away and refuse to discuss it, or even make you feel inferior to boost their own ego. Going on the defense almost always points to a person with ulterior motives.
After you hear their story, you intuitively feel that they have embellished major parts of it or just fabricated the entire thing altogether. Narcissistic liars usually don’t have very good cover-ups for their stories, because they have to come up with a fictional tale on the fly.
With an experienced Narcissistic liar, they will not show any signs of guilt because they have gotten used to living in a lie. However, if you start grilling them with questions, they will eventually crack under the pressure and either throw the blame on someone else, including you for not believing them and will walk away acting hurt and playing the victim.. Be very cautious of anyone who plays the eternal innocent victim.